Noob Kalkwasser Query

[deutchriffer]

So apologies if this has been answered before numerous times or is just common knowledge but I am thinking to use kalkwasser on my new build (Elos 70 60g total) I’m currently cycling and was aiming to use a 5-10L dosing vessel with a tight fitting lid, originally I was planning to get a stirrer or something like that then realised it’s not entirely necessary.

My questions are:
Should I not even think of using this like 2-part dosing until I have some corals to consume the all etc, and just use a CO2 scrubber for the skimmer?

So many videos talk about, add your teaspoons and water, “set your dose and that’s all there is to it” but a noob like me is thinking, ok you said don’t dose the slurry, but when it’s time to refill that container and in my case it’ll be more often given the size container I’m going for, what do you do with the slurry after you’re done? Do you refill with rodi and not add more kalk or do you wash the container out and start again, or none of the above

I guess I have seen people talk about the importance of ph testing the saturated liquid to know you have the right mix, but just haven’t seen anything talk about the existing media.

Also one last question, am I guaranteed to have chalking problems on all my gear when dosing kalk slowly? Just thinking if the benefits outweigh the chore of maintenance.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is your alkalinity currently lower than you want?

I personally wouldn’t start kalkwasser right away unless you have substantial coralline growth.

When you dissolve the solids, and undissolved material will settle out. Don’t suck it up and dose it.

When you’ve used most of the clear liquid, just repeat the process to make more, and don’t bother cleaning out residue each time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Precipitation is not guaranteed to be an issue unless you dose too much or too fast.

FWiW, it’s all I used for 20 years.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Following, I have a versa dosing pump on the way along with a 5 liter res and BRS pharma Kalk mix.

I bought some Sea-chem Kalk the other day and that stuff is gross as it was all clumpy and wouldn't settle to the bottom so took it back to the LFS and said keep your junk. I did however did drip the solution overnight and was amazed the pH lift it gave. After a bit of thought I thought Id do it more professional rather then franfensteining a gravity fed dripper.

@Randy Holmes-Farley I added half a tsb to 1 liter of water and mixed it and let it sit for 12 hrs and it was just like milk. What would you suggest for kalk in 5L of rodi water? Goal is to maintain good pH like 8.2-8.3 and I'm loosing around .5 of a dkh a day. Windows been closed up from the heat and it's just been a struggle getting the pH to 8

I want to go slow but really it's been so many years I'm at a loss on how much to mix in 5L of water.
I run 8.5 dkh
Calcium is 456
Mag 1460

 

[Gabe_Diazz05]

Following, I have a versa dosing pump on the way along with a 5 liter res and BRS pharma Kalk mix.

I bought some Sea-chem Kalk the other day and that stuff is gross as it was all clumpy and wouldn't settle to the bottom so took it back to the LFS and said keep your junk. I did however did drip the solution overnight and was amazed the pH lift it gave. After a bit of thought I thought Id do it more professional rather then franfensteining a gravity fed dripper.

@Randy Holmes-Farley I added half a tsb to 1 liter of water and mixed it and let it sit for 12 hrs and it was just like milk. What would you suggest for kalk in 5L of rodi water? Goal is to maintain good pH like 8.2-8.3 and I'm loosing around .5 of a dkh a day. Windows been closed up from the heat and it's just been a struggle getting the pH to 8

I want to go slow but really it's been so many years I'm at a loss on how much to mix in 5L of water.
I run 8.5 dkh
Calcium is 456
Mag 1460

I am also new to kalk, from what I understand we are limited by two things; evap rate and how much alk and calcium our corals are consuming. I found that my corals are consuming .1dkh a day, which isn’t a lot and it’s not enough to have an impact on my ph. I have a 5 gallon closed container and mixed 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. I then used the reef calculator to find how much limewater to dose in order to give me a .1 dkh increase, this was around 4.4 oz. I converted 4.4 oz to mL and it’s equivalent to 130mL. As my corals consume more alk and calcium I will need to increase the mL to meet my consumption. Now for Evap rate, my tank roughly evaporates 1500 mL a day. If I were to get to a point where I’m using up 1500 ml a day and it is not enough to maintain my alk and calcium, I believe that is when one would increase the amount of kalk that is mixed per gallon. So until I need to dose more mL a day that’s when I assume I would see a PH increase, depending on how much of an increase it is. I also forgot to mention I use a BRS 1.1 mL doser and set it to dose over the span of 2 hours, which is around 132 mL. I hope this helps and I am not 100% sure if I am correct so keep an open mind with this info.

 

[deutchriffer]

Thanks so much for the reply Randy, generally in the past I’ve used 2 part with the balling trace elements additives from tropic Marin, with this tank I plan to keep it even simpler and have All For Reef in a 5L container, and allow asset in another, it’s interesting what you say about leaving the stuff that’s settled I just assumed the videos I’ve seen in the past have something like 1” thick settlement and assumed if it’s 1” today, then the next top up will be another 1” but this just my inexperience with kalk and not stumbling across the right discussions.

Would I be right in assuming that whenever I do switch to kalk, I’d likely be better off turning my ATO off during the hours that the mall would be working (non-photo hours)?

Depending on your response to the 1” of settled media, how often would you be cleaning out and changing that?

The main reason i was thinking to use kalk was for the PH boost because I’m no longer using soda ash for dosing, but maybe I’m better off just using a CO2 scrubber then later on using Kalk as my tank consumes too much for A4R to keep up with.

Also I’ve seen stuff about kalk not all being even, back when I first heard about it people swore by the brightwell aquatics stuff Kalk+2…wondering if that’s the best stuff to be going for considering I won’t be using a tonne in my setup I presume I can afford to not have to buy something that’s cheaper for bulk, and concentrate on something more pure

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I am also new to kalk, from what I understand we are limited by two things; evap rate and how much alk and calcium our corals are consuming. I found that my corals are consuming .1dkh a day, which isn’t a lot and it’s not enough to have an impact on my ph. I have a 5 gallon closed container and mixed 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. I then used the reef calculator to find how much limewater to dose in order to give me a .1 dkh increase, this was around 4.4 oz. I converted 4.4 oz to mL and it’s equivalent to 130mL. As my corals consume more alk and calcium I will need to increase the mL to meet my consumption. Now for Evap rate, my tank roughly evaporates 1500 mL a day. If I were to get to a point where I’m using up 1500 ml a day and it is not enough to maintain my alk and calcium, I believe that is when one would increase the amount of kalk that is mixed per gallon. So until I need to dose more mL a day that’s when I assume I would see a PH increase, depending on how much of an increase it is. I also forgot to mention I use a BRS 1.1 mL doser and set it to dose over the span of 2 hours, which is around 132 mL. I hope this helps and I am not 100% sure if I am correct so keep an open mind with this info.

This was a post I got back from ask BRS on Facebook.

**You'll want to mix the 5L container up to max saturation to make calculating this easy based on alk consumption, so you'll want to do 2tbsp per gallon. For the 5L container this would equate to roughly 2.6 tbsp.

As for determining the dosage amount, what is your total system volume?**

It's a 35.2 AIO Waterbox with 30 gallons total water volume. Kinda scored an extra gallon with the bullet 2 skimmer.

Anyways:

Ok, I get that but that's for dkh as I asked. When I did a drip test with that garbage seachem crap it was 1 level tsb in 1000ml of water. I dripped in around 700ml of the the higher pH is causing my plating corals to explode and thus the alkalinity to be sucked up. So now I'm in the position that I can't just use kalk for a pH boost and rely on my 2 part dosing, makes no sense as I think about it.

In all honesty I was planning on just dosing kalk during the summer with the home closed up and then switch to AFR come winter as pH really isn't a problem in the cold months, but now with the pH high and growth taking off it looks like I'll be kalking all the time. Now my biggest hurdle is evaporation. Some days I'll loose 1/2 a gallon and other days only half that :/

Oh well slow drip it is but need Randy to straighten me up and give a short solid opinion on this kalk stuff.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Following, I have a versa dosing pump on the way along with a 5 liter res and BRS pharma Kalk mix.

I bought some Sea-chem Kalk the other day and that stuff is gross as it was all clumpy and wouldn't settle to the bottom so took it back to the LFS and said keep your junk. I did however did drip the solution overnight and was amazed the pH lift it gave. After a bit of thought I thought Id do it more professional rather then franfensteining a gravity fed dripper.

@Randy Holmes-Farley I added half a tsb to 1 liter of water and mixed it and let it sit for 12 hrs and it was just like milk. What would you suggest for kalk in 5L of rodi water? Goal is to maintain good pH like 8.2-8.3 and I'm loosing around .5 of a dkh a day. Windows been closed up from the heat and it's just been a struggle getting the pH to 8

I want to go slow but really it's been so many years I'm at a loss on how much to mix in 5L of water.
I run 8.5 dkh
Calcium is 456
Mag 1460

2 level teaspoons of kalk per gallon is about all that will dissolve, and there will generally be some solids that do not dissolve. Let those settle overnight, then use the liquid even if there’s a bit of solids still in it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This was a post I got back from ask BRS on Facebook.

**You'll want to mix the 5L container up to max saturation to make calculating this easy based on alk consumption, so you'll want to do 2tbsp per gallon. For the 5L container this would equate to roughly 2.6 tbsp.

As for determining the dosage amount, what is your total system volume?**

It's a 35.2 AIO Waterbox with 30 gallons total water volume. Kinda scored an extra gallon with the bullet 2 skimmer.

Anyways:

Ok, I get that but that's for dkh as I asked. When I did a drip test with that garbage seachem crap it was 1 level tsb in 1000ml of water. I dripped in around 700ml of the the higher pH is causing my plating corals to explode and thus the alkalinity to be sucked up. So now I'm in the position that I can't just use kalk for a pH boost and rely on my 2 part dosing, makes no sense as I think about it.

In all honesty I was planning on just dosing kalk during the summer with the home closed up and then switch to AFR come winter as pH really isn't a problem in the cold months, but now with the pH high and growth taking off it looks like I'll be kalking all the time. Now my biggest hurdle is evaporation. Some days I'll loose 1/2 a gallon and other days only half that :/

Oh well slow drip it is but need Randy to straighten me up and give a short solid opinion on this kalk stuff.

If that is what BRS literally wrote, then it’s poor advice . 2 tbsp (tablespoons) per gallon is about 3 times the amount that can dissolve.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

If that is what BRS literally wrote, then it’s poor advice . 2 tbsp (tablespoons) per gallon is about 3 times the amount that can dissolve.

Yup that was the BRS guy that replied back to me.

 

[deutchriffer]

So Randy, what is your method for storing, dosing etc would be interested considering how long you’ve been using it for and it’s likely your process has evolved since you began

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So Randy, what is your method for storing, dosing etc would be interested considering how long you’ve been using it for and it’s likely your process has evolved since you began

I made up about 120 gallons at a time using 3 x 44 gallon Brute cans plumbed together. I pumped from that to my tank with a reef filler pump (no longer sold) and it lasted for a month or more.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I delivered it by ATO, but a dosing pump is also a good choice.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

If that is what BRS literally wrote, then it’s poor advice . 2 tbsp (tablespoons) per gallon is about 3 times the amount that can dissolve.

Randy, how much BRS kalk do I add to my 5000ml container? It just arrived and need a quick answer. Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, how much BRS kalk do I add to my 5000ml container? It just arrived and need a quick answer. Thank you!

For a reservoir of saturated kalkwasser, you need about 2.6 level teaspoons.

 

[deutchriffer]

in my sump the highest flow section is into my filter roller given that’s where my single overflow pipe goes. Do you think if I ended up dosing Kalk and ran it super slow drip, it would be ok dosing it into the roller?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

in my sump the highest flow section is into my filter roller given that’s where my single overflow pipe goes. Do you think if I ended up dosing Kalk and ran it super slow drip, it would be ok dosing it into the roller?

Probably. It has easy enough to try it and see if you get any white precipitate there that builds up.

This is what I got where I dosed kalkwasser. Any time the dose tip moved and dripped in the brute can wall, solids formed. It was not a problem, just wasting a bit of the kalkwasser.

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Precipitates Where Limewater is Added

---

When limewater is added to seawater, a cloudiness can form almost immediately (similar to that in Figure 3, although not usually that intense). This initial cloudiness is magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2, and it forms when the water's pH rises into the low to middle 10's. Theoretical and experimental reasons for believing this material to be Mg(OH)2 (and not magnesium carbonate or calcium carbonate, for example) are given later in this article. As the limewater is mixed in, the local pH around the particulates drops, and as soon as it drops below pH 10, the magnesium hydroxide dissolves.

Precipitates Where Limewater is Added

---

When limewater is added to seawater, a cloudiness can form almost immediately (similar to that in Figure 3, although not usually that intense). This initial cloudiness is magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2, and it forms when the water's pH rises into the low to middle 10's. Theoretical and experimental reasons for believing this material to be Mg(OH)2 (and not magnesium carbonate or calcium carbonate, for example) are given later in this article. As the limewater is mixed in, the local pH around the particulates drops, and as soon as it drops below pH 10, the magnesium hydroxide dissolves.

If the limewater is not allowed to disperse rapidly enough, meaning that the pH does not drop fairly quickly, additional precipitates can form, especially calcium carbonate. Additionally, if the limewater drips onto surfaces in contact with seawater (such as the sides of a sump, Figure 4), bulk calcium carbonate can form on those surfaces. This precipitation takes place primarily because the limewater has pushed the CaCO3 supersaturation very high by converting much or all of the bicarbonate into carbonate. Since the precipitation of calcium carbonate can be slow to occur, rapid dispersal of the limewater doesn't lead to much or any precipitation of calcium carbonate. But if a region maintains high pH for long enough, calcium carbonate will precipitate. How long this process takes depends on the degree of supersaturation, but can be on the order of minutes to hours.

 

[deutchriffer]

Probably. It has easy enough to try it and see if you get any white precipitate there that builds up.

This is what I got where I dosed kalkwasser. Any time the dose tip moved and dripped in the brute can wall, solids formed. It was not a problem, just wasting a bit of the kalkwasser.

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Precipitates Where Limewater is Added

---

When limewater is added to seawater, a cloudiness can form almost immediately (similar to that in Figure 3, although not usually that intense). This initial cloudiness is magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2, and it forms when the water's pH rises into the low to middle 10's. Theoretical and experimental reasons for believing this material to be Mg(OH)2 (and not magnesium carbonate or calcium carbonate, for example) are given later in this article. As the limewater is mixed in, the local pH around the particulates drops, and as soon as it drops below pH 10, the magnesium hydroxide dissolves.

​

Precipitates Where Limewater is Added

---

When limewater is added to seawater, a cloudiness can form almost immediately (similar to that in Figure 3, although not usually that intense). This initial cloudiness is magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2, and it forms when the water's pH rises into the low to middle 10's. Theoretical and experimental reasons for believing this material to be Mg(OH)2 (and not magnesium carbonate or calcium carbonate, for example) are given later in this article. As the limewater is mixed in, the local pH around the particulates drops, and as soon as it drops below pH 10, the magnesium hydroxide dissolves.

If the limewater is not allowed to disperse rapidly enough, meaning that the pH does not drop fairly quickly, additional precipitates can form, especially calcium carbonate. Additionally, if the limewater drips onto surfaces in contact with seawater (such as the sides of a sump, Figure 4), bulk calcium carbonate can form on those surfaces. This precipitation takes place primarily because the limewater has pushed the CaCO3 supersaturation very high by converting much or all of the bicarbonate into carbonate. Since the precipitation of calcium carbonate can be slow to occur, rapid dispersal of the limewater doesn't lead to much or any precipitation of calcium carbonate. But if a region maintains high pH for long enough, calcium carbonate will precipitate. How long this process takes depends on the degree of supersaturation, but can be on the order of minutes to hours.

​

Thanks so much, huge asset to the community you are!

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Is my room so full of CO2 that dripping kalk hardly raises the ph? Probe was recalibrated and I'm dripping into the return chamber where the water flows over the glass partition into the return. It's not dripping on the glass but onto the water flowing over the glass. It seems if I drip into the display I'm seeing a tiny increase in pH but that just may be coincidence?

I'm mixing BRS kalk in 5 liters of RODI water at 2.5ish tsb's and stirring it till no solids on the bottom of the container. The pick up line in the container is high enough as to not suck up and fine dust. My dkh has been holding at 8.5 for 3 days and the pH is hanging around as of today 8.03.

The other night I observed the pH dropping so I raised the drip rate to compensate the drop.

Any suggestions on how much I should drip through out the 24hr period? I was around 800ml for 24 hrs. I'm now trying to set the dose to start 1 hr before lights out and turn off at 1:30pm as the lights would've been on to full ramp. This is what the program looks like now and started last night. The pH screen shot is ending the time from calibration so it's showing a 10 or so after calibration. pH of the mixed kalk if I recall was 12.73ish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks so much, huge asset to the community you are!

You’re welcome and thanks.