No cool packs during shipping in low 90's temps

[Jburak]

Hey folks,

I ordered some hammer, torch, frogspawn and an acan off of Ebay. They were shipped overnight via FedEx last Monday. They were delivered Tuesday and brought into the house immediately. I opened the box which was lined with styrofoam and newpaper but no cool packs. The temps those days were in the low 90's. The corals were closed up so I really couldn't tell if anything was wrong with them. I opened the bags and started a drip acclimation for 1 hour and floated them in a container in the tank for another 10 minutes to match the water temp.

I waited for several days but the euphillia's would not open up at all and noticed more of the skeleton showing. By the 6th day they were all skeletons and contacted the seller (which I should have done when they were first delivered) stating they were dead and there was no cool pack in the box.

I got a reply back but no mention why there was no cool packs.

Here is the reply.

"Hello, I am sorry to hear about your trouble with the Euphyllia. If the corals over heated during shipping when they got to you the water would have been dark brown and when you opened the bags they would have had a very bad smell. At this point you would have had to take photos right away and notified us about the DOA. Because you were able to acclimate them the way you described and were able to release them into your tank tells us that they were not dead upon arrival.

Please note, we explain our DOA policy in every item description and the corals arrived alive to you. Once corals are in our customers tanks we cannot take responsibility for every coral that doesn't make it because we cannot ensure every customer provides a stable environment for all coral.

You mention taking this further, and we would like the chance to do our part. We care about you as a customer, so we ask what would you like for us to do to help you? "


So my question is, was this person in the wrong for not providing cool packs due to the heat when shipping?

If so, what type of compensation should I ask for?

TIA.

 

[blaxsun]

Some places do provide cool and heat packs - others don't. Sometimes it's needed - others not. That's basically all I can tell you except that it's entirely possible the corals were already in ill health (but not dead) when you received them. I'm not sure if you'd contacted them and taken photos at the outset they wouldn't have suggested that you acclimate them any differently than you had, but hindsight is always 20-20.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Euphyllia is dead and other questionable. Poor packing is already an issue and when coral gets too warm or hot - It bleaches as in your case. The issue i see id corals too hot due to lack of temperature control - Ice packs wrapped in newspaper

 

[Cali Reef Life]

Not that it helps you now but I don't order any coral online between July and August. I don't live in a cold area but same goes for January and February. In future I would request if they ship with ice packs or heating packs ahead of time. Also DOA needs to be reported in first 2 hours is typical.

 

[Jburak]

Thanks for the input so far. I ike to get some more responses on what you would do regarding this before I contact the seller.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Sry for the losses. Also no need to drip acclimate the corals. Dip and Qt or for me display.

 

[Kathy Floyd]

Honestly, if you noticed an issue, you should have taken a pic or emailed the company right away just in case. Since you waited so many days, it is going to be hard to hold someone else accountable now at this point. I can also see how a reputable company will stand by their product and still try to do something to make it right, but I don't think it is 100% their fault. However, this is just my opinion.

 

[mdb_talon]

As a seller I am guessing their policy is clear and you didnt follow it so i would honestly give the seller points for even be willing to discuss anything they can do when notified 5 days later.

I dont know their fine print but generally sellers have a DOA(dead on arrival) policy not a "dead 2 days later" policy. As a seller it is hard to know that an issue 2 days later(or 5 in your case) was because of shipping or because of acclimation, tank params, etc. Stress from shipping certainly may have caused the death 5 days later....however so could many other things

If i were you and wanted some compensation i would not ask for more than replacements at maybe 30-40% off and you pay for shipping and would consider myself fortunate if they agreed to it.

A good idea is to take pics of everything in the bag immediately when u open the box. Then take the temp of the water as soon as you open the bag. Record that and if it an extreme temp notify the seller asap. Then close bag up and float to match temp of tank. Then dip and take pics of every piece again out of the bag before putting in tank. Dont do long drip acclimation or anything. I dont know of any sellers who recommend it for coral anymore and in some cases it is contrary to their doa policy.

 

[Justdrew]

Not that it helps you now but I don't order any coral online between July and August. I don't live in a cold area but same goes for January and February. In future I would request if they ship with ice packs or heating packs ahead of time. Also DOA needs to be reported in first 2 hours is typical.

It's 112 here in Vegas today and I just had an order arrive this morning. Packaged correctly and not left to sit in the sun, temps stay fine. Fedex of course didn't ring the doorbell, Ring saved me this time. Some vendors that use thinner styrofoam or pieces of styrofoam instead of a sealed container would worry me.

I floated bags for 15 to 20 minutes, straight to CoralRx dip with tank water for 5+ minutes, rinse in tank water, and then into tank. All pieces open within 10-15 minutes, polyps out on SPS.

 

[Jburak]

You all have been very helpful. I will most likely just suck it up due to not taking pictures and temp of the water in the bags when they first arrived.

JUst debating if I should leave negative or neutral feedback on Ebay at no ice pack in low 90's heat.

 

[DIYreefer]

You all have been very helpful. I will most likely just suck it up due to not taking pictures and temp of the water in the bags when they first arrived.

JUst debating if I should leave negative or neutral feedback on Ebay at no ice pack in low 90's heat.

I wouldn't leave negative feedback. The reason being that ice packs aren't o early effective for shipping. Unlike their heat pack counterparts, ice packs don't regulate temperature for very long. They are typically made up of nothing more than a mixture of water and rubbing alcohol. That stated, once they thaw, they're useless. Whether or not they are used for shipping would Moreno depend on. The weather they start from is like. I live in deep south Texas, so when I ship during the summer I always use ice packs.

Now, regarding your acclimation procedure I unfortunately think that you did more harm than good when dripping your new corals. In a sealed bag there is ammonium build up, which is toxic to corals but not as much as ammonia is. Once the bag is opened, and the water inside is exposed to air, the ammonium converts to ammonia. An hour in ammonia saturated water for an already stressed coral is very likely what caused your problem, not the lack of ice packs. I'm sorry for your loss, but I don't think this o e is on the seller.

Never drip acclimate corals. And honestly, I very rarely drip acclimate fish either due to the reason explained above. The only type of inhabitants that I drip 100% of the time is inverts. Sudden change in water chemistry seems to effect them much more so than it does corals or fish, IME.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

You all have been very helpful. I will most likely just suck it up due to not taking pictures and temp of the water in the bags when they first arrived.

JUst debating if I should leave negative or neutral feedback on Ebay at no ice pack in low 90's heat.

No I wouldn't like some one already said it's the middle of summer, and not the best time to order, but they are not obligated to use ice/heat packs if not listed as such in the shipping, thats how they keep the shipping costs down, with all the price hikes and shipping costs its no wonder they didn't, but they do make their doa policy clear at least most do. I assume this is coming out of Orlando wich has been a feels like temperature of 100°+ for the past month. bad feed back on ebay might make you feel better in the moment but it's not 2cool even since they tried to work with you, it sounds like they picked up on you " taking it further" and they were still willing to converse with you about a solution. You asked how people felt thats what I think just call it a learning experience and I bet next time you will do like said above and take the arrival pictures and forgo the 1hr drip acclamation which has been proven to be the wrong way to acclimate shipped corals that have been in a sealed bag over 24hrs.

I'd leave the situation in a professional manner and let the seller know you will be back and would appreciate above par Shipping in the future, that with decent feed back might get you more flies

 

[Cali Reef Life]

It's 112 here in Vegas today and I just had an order arrive this morning. Packaged correctly and not left to sit in the sun, temps stay fine. Fedex of course didn't ring the doorbell, Ring saved me this time. Some vendors that use thinner styrofoam or pieces of styrofoam instead of a sealed container would worry me.

I floated bags for 15 to 20 minutes, straight to CoralRx dip with tank water for 5+ minutes, rinse in tank water, and then into tank. All pieces open within 10-15 minutes, polyps out on SPS.

True it can work but not worth the extra risk if there's a much higher percentage something happens then I'm more of a risk avoidance reefer. I qt coral and fish but some find success dropping everything in until they dont.