Nitrates 100+ppm, Need help with Dosing Vodka

[Ashish Patel]

Hi All,

My reef is about 18 months old and finally mature. However, my nitrates have gotten dangerously high since my 7 tangs and 14 large snail have tripled in size. I also feed heavy to help with aggression. Anyways I dose Lanthanum cholride and my PO are stable at around .07-.10. However, my nitrates are of the charts and I want to finally get it down to at least 50ppm.


Ques
1. How can i safely dose Vodka to my 500 gallon system?
2. Dos and Donts?
3. Can I dose by hand daily or a gravity fed dosing pump (which i have already)?
4. Can i use absolute vodka that has been sitting in my garage for 2 years from an old party?
5. What amount of vodka is typically dosed?

I can't really justify the price of buying another versa pump (pump of choice) and rather not trust a random dosing pump.

If you want to see my tank here is my YT channel. I am sure the high nitrates is impacting my growth significantly. Things look good but growth should be way more than I am getting.

https://www.youtube.com/@AquariumSurge

 

[MnFish1]

If you are thinking your coral is affected, I would consider water change(s) instead, and then starting a dosing program. Though I'm assuming water changes (like 2x50%) - which would bring your nitrates down to 25 or so - would be a major expense/hassle, The risk of overshooting on the downside would seem to be high with just vodka dosing - and may take a while. Nice tank btw.

If you want to dose vodka, you can dose daily. Here is a nice protocol - I'm sure there are others. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/vodka-dosing.314519/

 

[jda]

I never really dosed vodka, but did sugar and vinegar. Somebody else will have to help with this. I mostly used sugar since it was cheap, pure and available.

For me, you need a STRONG skimmer to remove all of those waterborne bacteria that you want to grow. You also need strong aeration since those growing bacteria use up A LOT oxygen. A second skimmer can help with both export and oxygenation.

Start slow - you didn't get to 100ppm of no3 overnight so don't worry if it takes a few weeks to ramp up your dose. You know it is working when your skimmer cup smells just rank and stomach turning and the output is huge.

I just added my sugar or vinegar once a day into the tank. Worked fine. I had a jar of sugar and a kitchen measuring spoon... nothing too scientific.

Remember that doing organic carbon will lift all ships, not just bacteria to export. There can be unintended consequences and they don't affect all tanks the same - another reason to ramp slowly and watch.

Did I mention to go slow? If you overdose, the bacteria can multiply so quickly that your fish can suffocate - literally. It is not good and has happened to too many folks.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Getting the nitrate level down first is probably a good idea. Phosphate is required for the carbon dosing to work. To reduce 100 ppm to say 25 ppm may require more phosphate than you have available. Additionally, test kits have poor resolution at the high end of their range. A 100 ppm reading could be 80 or 150!

I'm with @MnFish1, do a couple big water changes even though they will be a lot of hassle in your big ole tank. 25 ppm would be a good place to start. 50 would probably work also. Then start carbon dosing. I also agree with @jda that a good skimmer is a must, particularly if you are carbon dosing.

 

[MnFish1]

Getting the nitrate level down first is probably a good idea. Phosphate is required for the carbon dosing to work. To reduce 100 ppm to say 25 ppm may require more phosphate than you have available. Additionally, test kits have poor resolution at the high end of their range. A 100 ppm reading could be 80 or 150!

I'm with @MnFish1, do a couple big water changes even though they will be a lot of hassle in your big ole tank. 25 ppm would be a good place to start. 50 would probably work also. Then start carbon dosing. I also agree with @jda that a good skimmer is a must, particularly if you are carbon dosing.

Additionally: "The consumption of nitrate by any process (except a water change) gives back the exact amount of alkalinity when it was made. So if nitrate is declining, that process will add to alkalinity. So if nitrate is steady, and is coming from ammonia, then it should not impact the alkalinity"

 

[DCR]

Looking at your set-up on U-tube, I think the high nitrates are being caused by the total lack of any sand bed in the tank or the sump. You may not want to go that direction, but I think that a remote deep sand bed (3") in your sump or somewhere in your basement would bring the nitrates down significantly even without carbon dosing. It does in my system.

 

[jda]

Remote deep sand beds are no joke. They work. If you have floor space, it might be a good idea.

200g boxes of IO are 3 for about $110 right now. This is a cheap jumpstart.

 

[MnFish1]

Remote deep sand beds are no joke. They work. If you have floor space, it might be a good idea.

200g boxes of IO are 3 for about $110 right now. This is a cheap jumpstart.

which will take weeks to accomplish

 

[Miami Reef]

I have a lot of experience with carbon dosing vodka and vinegar to my tank. I’ve used both separately.

I have not seen ANY ill effect of vodka (or vinegar). I’ve dosed as high as 80mL of vodka a day to my 260 gallon tank (spread out). No ill effects.

Here’s my recommendation to lower nitrates in your tank:

1) First, start with a good skimmer. Skim wet.

2) Next, start with 30mL of vodka per day.

3) After a few days, if everything looks good, go up to 60mL per day.

4) You should good high surface agitation for gas exchange, and dose the vodka by hand 1x per day any time during the tank’s photoperiod.

5) Good luck. Every 50ppm NO3 depleted will add 2.3dKH of alkalinity.

 

[Miami Reef]

You can also use vinegar if you want.

For vinegar:

1) You need a dosing pump to spread out the dose because the pH lowering effect is front loaded. With vodka, the pH only gets lowered as it gets consumed, so it is very gradual and not detectable.

2) vodka and vinegar have the same pH lowering effect per carbon molecule added.

3) if you want to dose vinegar in one shot, saturate it with calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser). Add enough kalkwasser until you can see visible precipitation on the bottom. This will dissolve as more vinegar is added. Don’t dose the solids. You won’t experience any pH lowering effect.

4) Only use distilled white vinegar. It’s cheap and pure.

5) Start with .5mL/gal. Work up to 1mL/gal (250mL per day, final dose should be 500 mL per day)

6) Saturating vinegar with calcium hydroxide with add some calcium and alkalinity to your tank, in addition to the 2.3dKH alkalinity per 50ppm NO3 removed.

7) vinegar has the additional benefit of feeding corals and sponges, as they can directly consume acetate. It also has less risk of feeding cyano, and it is cheaper.

 

[jda]

You can get this every day... make you want to puke. This was with sugar, but any OC works. ASM G4 skimmer. You can get sick of changing the cup, but it is all OK when you watch the no3 go down.

 

[Ashish Patel]

If you are thinking your coral is affected, I would consider water change(s) instead, and then starting a dosing program. Though I'm assuming water changes (like 2x50%) - which would bring your nitrates down to 25 or so - would be a major expense/hassle, The risk of overshooting on the downside would seem to be high with just vodka dosing - and may take a while. Nice tank btw.

If you want to dose vodka, you can dose daily. Here is a nice protocol - I'm sure there are others. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/vodka-dosing.314519/

Thanks, I wish it was as easy as doing a few large waterchanges but its just no longer affordable with salt cost and even availability. I priced it out and it cost around $100 just for a 25% water change and for this to work Id need to do at least the amount you suggested. Also, it would be a temporary fix as the nitrates will shoot up. i will sure to check out the link.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I never really dosed vodka, but did sugar and vinegar. Somebody else will have to help with this. I mostly used sugar since it was cheap, pure and available.

For me, you need a STRONG skimmer to remove all of those waterborne bacteria that you want to grow. You also need strong aeration since those growing bacteria use up A LOT oxygen. A second skimmer can help with both export and oxygenation.

Start slow - you didn't get to 100ppm of no3 overnight so don't worry if it takes a few weeks to ramp up your dose. You know it is working when your skimmer cup smells just rank and stomach turning and the output is huge.

I just added my sugar or vinegar once a day into the tank. Worked fine. I had a jar of sugar and a kitchen measuring spoon... nothing too scientific.

Remember that doing organic carbon will lift all ships, not just bacteria to export. There can be unintended consequences and they don't affect all tanks the same - another reason to ramp slowly and watch.

Did I mention to go slow? If you overdose, the bacteria can multiply so quickly that your fish can suffocate - literally. It is not good and has happened to too many folks.

Wow, sugar in skimmer - I thought id heard it all lol. Trust me I am in no rush to bring down the NO since Ive known about this issue for 5 months now and been in the hobby long enough to know any quick fix nearly always leads to dead corals. I have a old becket skimmer on my shelf and could easily get it going for this purpose since my main skimmer is already getting LC drip - which i hate bc I have to wipe down the skimmer body few times a week bc that slime buildup drastically reduces skimmate. man i felt scared before I started dosing LC and now I have this fear again. I guess i'll take a bunch of nuggets from everyone and give something a shot -aslong as its cost effective

 

[Ashish Patel]

You can also use vinegar if you want.

For vinegar:

1) You need a dosing pump to spread out the dose because the pH lowering effect is front loaded. With vodka, the pH only gets lowered as it gets consumed, so it is very gradual and not detectable.

2) vodka and vinegar have the same pH lowering effect per carbon molecule added.

3) if you want to dose vinegar in one shot, saturate it with calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser). Add enough kalkwasser until you can see visible precipitation on the bottom. This will dissolve as more vinegar is added. Don’t dose the solids. You won’t experience any pH lowering effect.

4) Only use distilled white vinegar. It’s cheap and pure.

5) Start with .5mL/gal. Work up to 1mL/gal (250mL per day, final dose should be 500 mL per day)

6) Saturating vinegar with calcium hydroxide with add some calcium and alkalinity to your tank, in addition to the 2.3dKH alkalinity per 50ppm NO3 removed.

7) vinegar has the additional benefit of feeding corals and sponges, as they can directly consume acetate. It also has less risk of feeding cyano, and it is cheaper.

thats a good amount of info, thanks. I may have to consider all this and get back with more questions. LIke on point 3 - Can you elaborate on dosing in one shot? I figured I would avoid vinegar bc I am already dosing a good amount of LC which is definately depressing my PH. I have a Air exhanged and dose 9000ML Kalk per day and my PH is 8.1-8.2.

 

[Ashish Patel]

You can get this every day... make you want to puke. This was with sugar, but any OC works. ASM G4 skimmer. You can get sick of changing the cup, but it is all OK when you watch the no3 go down.

what kind of sugar are you using and how are you dosing it? What can go wrong with this method and does it have any impact on PH?

 

[Ashish Patel]

I have a lot of experience with carbon dosing vodka and vinegar to my tank. I’ve used both separately.

I have not seen ANY ill effect of vodka (or vinegar). I’ve dosed as high as 80mL of vodka a day to my 260 gallon tank (spread out). No ill effects.

Here’s my recommendation to lower nitrates in your tank:

1) First, start with a good skimmer. Skim wet.

2) Next, start with 30mL of vodka per day.

3) After a few days, if everything looks good, go up to 60mL per day.

4) You should good high surface agitation for gas exchange, and dose the vodka by hand 1x per day any time during the tank’s photoperiod.

5) Good luck. Every 50ppm NO3 depleted will add 2.3dKH of alkalinity.

5) Good luck. Every 50ppm NO3 depleted will add 2.3dKH of alkalinity. -SERIOUSLY?

 

[Miami Reef]

Any carbon dosing to lower nitrates will have the same pH lowering effect.

If you saturate vinegar with calcium hydroxide, you can completely bypass the pH drop. That’s the only carbon dosing method to avoid dropping pH. It will actually have a positive effect on pH.

Lanatham chloride doesn‘t drop pH. It doesn’t contain H+. It can precipitate lanthanum carbonate, which in turn can lead to an overall lower pH by having less alkalinity in the water.

Yes, dropping 50ppm NO3 will add 2.3dKH alkalinity.

Adding 50ppm NO3 from foods or dosing ammonia will deplete 2.3dKH alkalinity.

So unless you dosed nitrates, the alkalinity change will be net neutral.

 

[Pistondog]

No mention of refugium yet, might have to be good size to soak up 500g@100ppm.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

any dead spots in the tank? you will need to add PO4 to bring down Nitrate. I would go slow and keep a daily log of tank health. Any filter sponges or Bio balls? These are nitrate factories. good luck.

 

[GK3]

Looking at your set-up on U-tube, I think the high nitrates are being caused by the total lack of any sand bed in the tank or the sump. You may not want to go that direction, but I think that a remote deep sand bed (3") in your sump or somewhere in your basement would bring the nitrates down significantly even without carbon dosing. It does in my system.

+1 I looked at the YouTube channel and immediately thought Refug with deep sand and macro would take care of this better than dosing. I’m always partial to natural methods and no dosing to treat individual issues.