New with questions

[cnhutch]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new. I decided 3 days ago I want a salt water tank, with corals ( mainly softies, but probably will get a hammer head too). I had a freshwater tank years ago, but moved out of state and just never got another one though I have been wanting a tank again. Thankfully, with YouTube and the help of customer service from WorldWide Corals and Saltwater Aquariums I do feel I have a decent understanding of the basics for saltwater tanks. The tank I intend to get is the aio Fluvial Flex 32.5g, and a stand that's part metal and wood for 40g off Amazon. One last things about me is that, when I get anything living from plants to dogs, I don't get rid of it unless it's a dire situation, and that's my only option. I state this so you know I am already looking at the long term care and requirements.

Anyways now to the tons of questions. First set of questions is about equipment, specifically the power head and the heaters as the system is an aio. Is it better to go ahead and buy the more expensive titanium heaters? Should I look for a higher wattage heater put with a thermostat, that could upgrade with me? Or would that be bad for the thermostat as it's not running in a tank it's rated for? I am also considering getting the Vortech Mp10 for a power head solely for the fact it has a backup battery option for it. Is this overkill for a tank that size? How long with regular maintenance can they last? After all that's a large investment for a first time reefer, and I'm worried that it would only last a year or two.

The second topic is coral. I mainly want to stay with softies and possibly a hammer head or two. I am more concerned about zoas. I know a lot of people keep them, and never have an issue with the toxins. My questions is would the toxins be free floating in the water? I have kittens as well as kids who could possibly encounter it when doing water changes. I can already see my kittens trying to go fishing when the lid is off for the process. What would happen if an animal or child came in contact with the Zoa for any reason? Are there any that look similar to Zoa and Palthy without the toxins?

Finally, fish. I believe this might be where I will get the most diversity in the answers. I have have 6 fish I'm debating between for numerous reasons, but primarily I like how they look. The questions would be basically the same for them all. How well, they get along with each other? Which ones can even be kept together? How many of each type can fit in the tank individually? Also, how many of each can be kept with each other for the ones that do well together? The types I'm looking at are black striped clown ( not sure if the exact name, but looks like a panda) pygmy angle fish, pajama cardinal, firefish, goby, and blenny. The last two would honestly be the two I would be most willing to skip.

Thank you all in advance and sorry this is a bit long.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This is a great place to start.

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[The_Paradox]

Re: Heaters - I would never use a glass heater or a heater without a controller. Glass heaters break, and all thermostats break. 25-35 dollars for a controller will save you lots of ill thoughts down the road.

Re: Powerheads - I love the MP10s for small tanks. I hate cords in the water. I have some controller and westside MP10s that's almost ten years old. That said, you do not need to get MP10 for batter backup. Personally I would just get an AC UPS and run the whole tank off it. If you shut down everything except the powerhead in the even of a power failure they will run a long time. I live in Florida so...

Re: Zoas - I would never say it could never happen because never is a stupid word, but any common aquarium Zoas you will not have a problem with even in large numbers unless we are talking an animal that is already compromised.

Re: Fish - You're going to get a million suggestions and theories. Mine personally is decided on 1-2 must have fish and then fish you need ie clean up. From there stock more as it seems appropriate.

 

[cnhutch]

This is a great place to start.

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you, I will definitely give it a read. Yes, it's a tiny sliver of the ocean I can't wait to be able to see daily.

 

[cnhutch]

Re: Heaters - I would never use a glass heater or a heater without a controller. Glass heaters break, and all thermostats break. 25-35 dollars for a controller will save you lots of ill thoughts down the road.

Re: Powerheads - I love the MP10s for small tanks. I hate cords in the water. I have some controller and westside MP10s that's almost ten years old. That said, you do not need to get MP10 for batter backup. Personally I would just get an AC UPS and run the whole tank off it. If you shut down everything except the powerhead in the even of a power failure they will run a long time. I live in Florida so...

Re: Zoas - I would never say it could never happen because never is a stupid word, but any common aquarium Zoas you will not have a problem with even in large numbers unless we are talking an animal that is already compromised.

Re: Fish - You're going to get a million suggestions and theories. Mine personally is decided on 1-2 must have fish and then fish you need ie clean up. From there stock more as it seems appropriate.

That's all good input thank you. I am definitely feeling better hearing the mp10s last so long. Definitely good to know to avoid glass heaters, thank you. I do have a top 3 fish in those listed in order : pygmy angel fish in first, tied for second are the clown and cardinals. I just don't know if they will get along. I know fish do die and at some point I would have to replace them, but I don't want to get fish that would immediately fight and try to kill each other. For cleaning crew I'm leaning towards crabs and maybe a shrimp or two. I've never been a fan of snails, even though they seem popular.

 

[Bpb]

The buy once cry once philosophy is very real in most hobbies, this one included...However we must all remind ourselves. We are dealing with hobby grade equipment. Not commercial grade. So, even if you spend the big bucks to get the "best" in class, you still are looking at a high incidence of lemons, and for many a relatively short lifespan. The one thing I find vortechs have in their favor in this category is how modular they are. You can replace virtually every component of them without having to send them in for repairs. Tunze is much the same as well. The point of failure for nearly any pump will most often be the magnet. And you can expect your wet side magnet will indeed fail eventually. Keep a regular eye on it. Purchase an additional wet side and swap them out monthly for an inspection and cleaning. That way you can catch an issue before it becomes problematic.

I could type for days on the finer points of tank setup and what to expect over the first couple years of a tanks life, but it's been done to death and you can find any number of reliable guides on here or elsewhere. I'd find a reefer or a tank in particular you really admire, and pick their brain, or try to imitate as much of that setup/philosophy as you can. Not a guarantee you'll have the same results, but any formula is easier to follow than flying by the seat of your pants. And if the individual is available for questions, that's even better.

Zoas are fine so long as you dont eat them or boil them. Trying to cut them can also be an issue if they squirt toxin in the process. I've seen it shoot several feet. If you put them in the tank and leave them be, you'll be safe. The risk is involved in getting their actual tissue into your body. You wont be poisoned by simply having them. Just realize they CAN be dangerous and respect that and you'll be fine.

Fish? Saltwater fish are much much much more aggressive than freshwater fish in general. A semi aggressive saltwater fish like a clown or a wrasse, can be thought of as closer in temperament to an aggressive south american cichlid. I like to upgrade the aggression scale by a spot when comparing temperament between SW and FW. Smaller tanks make aggression magnified. Things like dottybacks, and sixline wrasses that are so popular at big box stores, and cheap, may seem tempting. But in a tank that size, itll be the only fish you can have. I learned my lesson with a sixline wrasse in a 90 gallon tank. Once it went in, any newcomers were killed.. You'll kinda learn that stuff as you go. Start with the absolute most peaceful fish you can first, and with a tank under 40 gallons I'd limit myself to 2-3 fish.

I'm always happy to help/mentor new hobbyists. PM me if you have any questions. My opinions are my own, and nothing in this hobby is universal.

 

[The_Paradox]

Assuming ocellaris or percula clownfish you should be ok. Sometimes they can fight with Pygmy Angels as anything can fight with anything. In smaller tanks Its common to also see clowns with Yellow Tail Damsels, but they too can fight. In general people tend to either way over think or way under think. The fact you are putting thought into this, I think you will do ok. Don't get in your own head.

 

[Uncle99]

Welcome to R2R!

Heaters….say 2-3watts per gallon….so 100-150 watt. Better is two 50-75watt……best is to add a Inkbird 306 WiFi, dual probe so they never fry your friends.

Flow…fine. I just use the Jebao wave makers.


Battery backup….sure….running one small pump last a long time. I just use a battery air pump and air stone, we don’t have power outages that last more than a day or two.

List of fish fine. Crabs are useless IMM, they cause problems and consume little algae once daily feeding times for fish are noticed, then they become lazy. Snails great, sand churners, glass cleaners, rock cleaners…..but just a couple at the start….there’s not enough to feed to many in the early system.

While palytoxin poisoning is real, it’s not an issue for anyone provided they stay in the water, respected and handled very carefully with gloves and glasses. Had them 40 years, never an issue. Zoa are not toxic to my knowledge, just palythoa however sometimes it’s a bit hard to distinguish between.
Palythoa usually have a noticeable feeding response in contrast to zoa.

Enjoy your journey!

Purple Death Palythoa

 

[cnhutch]

Assuming ocellaris or percula clownfish you should be ok. Sometimes they can fight with Pygmy Angels as anything can fight with anything. In smaller tanks Its common to also see clowns with Yellow Tail Damsels, but they too can fight. In general people tend to either way over think or way under think. The fact you are putting thought into this, I think you will do ok. Don't get in your own head.

Awesome thanks . That's true anything can fight and even randomly turn aggressive. I know I got a rather bad dog bite a few years ago, separating my two dogs that have been together for 8 years. I definitely get in my own head for sure. I have several debilitating mental health disorders, wich can also cause me to overthink everything, and make me want to control everything, even though I know I can't. Also thank you for the vote of confidence. Can we possibly dm?

 

[paragrouper]

Welcome.

I have the same tank and I have a Bagninni Cardinal, clown and a Coral Beauty. I wanted to go with a Pygm Angel, but I got overruled by the wife. All fish are different, but you should be okay there.

best of luck.

 

[cnhutch]

The buy once cry once philosophy is very real in most hobbies, this one included...However we must all remind ourselves. We are dealing with hobby grade equipment. Not commercial grade. So, even if you spend the big bucks to get the "best" in class, you still are looking at a high incidence of lemons, and for many a relatively short lifespan. The one thing I find vortechs have in their favor in this category is how modular they are. You can replace virtually every component of them without having to send them in for repairs. Tunze is much the same as well. The point of failure for nearly any pump will most often be the magnet. And you can expect your wet side magnet will indeed fail eventually. Keep a regular eye on it. Purchase an additional wet side and swap them out monthly for an inspection and cleaning. That way you can catch an issue before it becomes problematic.

I could type for days on the finer points of tank setup and what to expect over the first couple years of a tanks life, but it's been done to death and you can find any number of reliable guides on here or elsewhere. I'd find a reefer or a tank in particular you really admire, and pick their brain, or try to imitate as much of that setup/philosophy as you can. Not a guarantee you'll have the same results, but any formula is easier to follow than flying by the seat of your pants. And if the individual is available for questions, that's even better.

Zoas are fine so long as you dont eat them or boil them. Trying to cut them can also be an issue if they squirt toxin in the process. I've seen it shoot several feet. If you put them in the tank and leave them be, you'll be safe. The risk is involved in getting their actual tissue into your body. You wont be poisoned by simply having them. Just realize they CAN be dangerous and respect that and you'll be fine.

Fish? Saltwater fish are much much much more aggressive than freshwater fish in general. A semi aggressive saltwater fish like a clown or a wrasse, can be thought of as closer in temperament to an aggressive south american cichlid. I like to upgrade the aggression scale by a spot when comparing temperament between SW and FW. Smaller tanks make aggression magnified. Things like dottybacks, and sixline wrasses that are so popular at big box stores, and cheap, may seem tempting. But in a tank that size, itll be the only fish you can have. I learned my lesson with a sixline wrasse in a 90 gallon tank. Once it went in, any newcomers were killed.. You'll kinda learn that stuff as you go. Start with the absolute most peaceful fish you can first, and with a tank under 40 gallons I'd limit myself to 2-3 fish.

I'm always happy to help/mentor new hobbyists. PM me if you have any questions. My opinions are my own, and nothing in this hobby is universal.

Thanks I would definitely appreciate someone willing to mentor me. Everything you said about equipment definitely makes sense, and something I sometimes forget. That is good to know about the toxin. I didn't realize that the aggression levels change that much from fresh to salt.

 

[The_Paradox]

Awesome thanks . That's true anything can fight and even randomly turn aggressive. I know I got a rather bad dog bite a few years ago, separating my two dogs that have been together for 8 years. I definitely get in my own head for sure. I have several debilitating mental health disorders, wich can also cause me to overthink everything, and make me want to control everything, even though I know I can't. Also thank you for the vote of confidence. Can we possibly dm?

Everyone in this hobby gets in their own heads. I attribute to time dilation because everything happens so slow. You cannot help but feel helpless as you watch over days or weeks as something spirals. Way to tempting to try something even if it is the wrong something. As for DM, feel free to. Just know my advice is amazing (like everyones) until until something goes wrong then its trash... the same as everyones.

 

[cnhutch]

Welcome.

I have the same tank and I have a Bagninni Cardinal, clown and a Coral Beauty. I wanted to go with a Pygm Angel, but I got overruled by the wife. All fish are different, but you should be okay there.

best of luck.

Thank you and thankfully I'm the one who has the veto right as my other half doesn't care one way or the other as long as it can't kill me or the animals.

 

[cnhutch]

Welcome to R2R!

Heaters….say 2-3watts per gallon….so 100-150 watt. Better is two 50-75watt……best is to add a Inkbird 306 WiFi, dual probe so they never fry your friends.

Flow…fine. I just use the Jebao wave makers.


Battery backup….sure….running one small pump last a long time. I just use a battery air pump and air stone, we don’t have power outages that last more than a day or two.

List of fish fine. Crabs are useless IMM, they cause problems and consume little algae once daily feeding times for fish are noticed, then they become lazy. Snails great, sand churners, glass cleaners, rock cleaners…..but just a couple at the start….there’s not enough to feed to many in the early system.

While palytoxin poisoning is real, it’s not an issue for anyone provided they stay in the water, respected and handled very carefully with gloves and glasses. Had them 40 years, never an issue. Zoa are not toxic to my knowledge, just palythoa however sometimes it’s a bit hard to distinguish between.
Palythoa usually have a noticeable feeding response in contrast to zoa.

Enjoy your journey!

Purple Death Palythoa

View attachment 3138783

Thank you for sharing all of that info and such a beautiful specimen. I will consider all the equipment you suggestd.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Welcome to your new addiction!

 

[cnhutch]

Everyone in this hobby gets in their own heads. I attribute to time dilation because everything happens so slow. You cannot help but feel helpless as you watch over days or weeks as something spirals. Way to tempting to try something even if it is the wrong something. As for DM, feel free to. Just know my advice is amazing (like everyones) until until something goes wrong then its trash... the same as everyones.

That's a very fair point, all around on what you stated.

 

[cnhutch]

Welcome to your new addiction!

Lol thanks. I mean what's a hobby that doesn't leave you questioning life decisions and if you really need food over xyz.

 

[saltcats]

I would not oversize the heater - the most likely failure of a heater is for it to stick on, and an overpowered heater can fry your tank much more quickly and effectively. The thermostat controller is the failsafe, sure, but IMO it's not worth the extra risk. The heater can probably upgrade with you anyway - a lot of people like to run 2 smaller heaters vs 1 larger one in bigger tanks anyway for the same reason (and that if one fails off, the other can keep the water from getting quite so cold).

I'm not sure about an angelfish in that size tank - I haven't kept one myself but been looking into it for my upcoming 50gal build and seeing a lot of mixed reviews. Apparently they can be a lot more aggressive in smaller spaces, and are very active/use a lot of tank space.

Running activated carbon in your filter will help remove any coral toxins from the water, but I wouldn't worry about zoas really. Maybe if you'd been actually cutting them in the tank or messing with them a lot, but not in regular day to day life.

Good luck and welcome!

 

[cnhutch]

I would not oversize the heater - the most likely failure of a heater is for it to stick on, and an overpowered heater can fry your tank much more quickly and effectively. The thermostat controller is the failsafe, sure, but IMO it's not worth the extra risk. The heater can probably upgrade with you anyway - a lot of people like to run 2 smaller heaters vs 1 larger one in bigger tanks anyway for the same reason (and that if one fails off, the other can keep the water from getting quite so cold).

I'm not sure about an angelfish in that size tank - I haven't kept one myself but been looking into it for my upcoming 50gal build and seeing a lot of mixed reviews. Apparently they can be a lot more aggressive in smaller spaces, and are very active/use a lot of tank space.

Running activated carbon in your filter will help remove any coral toxins from the water, but I wouldn't worry about zoas really. Maybe if you'd been actually cutting them in the tank or messing with them a lot, but not in regular day to day life.

Good luck and welcome!

That is great to know about the heater being most likely to fail in the on position. Fried fish, is gross to eat and definitely not for pets. Even a pygmy angel wouldn't be good for that size tank? I know they only get about 3-4 inches on a really big one from what I saw. Good to know about the carbon .

 

[Bpb]

That is great to know about the heater being most likely to fail in the on position. Fried fish, is gross to eat and definitely not for pets. Even a pygmy angel wouldn't be good for that size tank? I know they only get about 3-4 inches on a really big one from what I saw. Good to know about the carbon .

Different reef fishes tend to occupy different areas of the water column. Most blennies, hawk fish, basslets, and gobies tend to hug the rock work, hide in burrows, and dart out for food on occasion. Not often are they open water swimmers. They establish a territory and rarely deviate. Clowns are much the same way. If you have an anemone, it is not uncommon for the clown to spend its entire natural life swimming in the tiny footprint of the anemones tentacles, only leaving to chase away anyone getting too close, bite you when you’re doing maintenance, or snatch some food, retreating quickly back to the anemone. They’ll get a little more adventurous without one, but they still tend to stick to a spot.

Angelfish on the other hand are grazing fish. They will tend to roam over the reef covering great distances in search of algae to munch. Same with tangs. That is why they tend to stress in small confines. Years ago I had a 75 gallon freshwater tank with a 12” tiger Oscar. He seemed perfectly content. Tended to hover in one place but interact if I approached the tank. My 150 gallon reef is 60”x24”x24” and it feels too small for my foxface who is maybe a 7” fish at most. Big active fish relative to their tank size really get a caged tiger look. They pace back and forth so quickly.

Same thing with anthias. They’re relatively small for the most part. 3-4” typically, but they’re so active and such powerful swimmers they will stress and die in a hurry in anything but a large tank. Seeing how they behave in my own tank, I wouldn’t put anthias in anything less than a 6 foot tank in the future. In the wild it makes sense. They form massive schools of thousands of fish and dart all over the open water.

Simply put, when I pick fish for the tank, I look less at their size at adulthood, and more how their behavior fits my tank dimensions and rock work. They can live a very long time. My clown fish is 18 years old…so that being my standard, if I lose a fish sooner than that, I tend to feel like a failure (though not all fish have that long of lifespan)