New Algea Scrubber

[Luisn17]

Hello everyone,

I need some guidance.

My 18 month old tank which has been doing fine but I continue to struggle with slightly elevated phosphate levels. Between 0.19-0.30…..I know, not super high for an LPS tank but I wanted to add more SPS. I have been carbon dosing elimi NP, 9ml a day and auto water changing 4 gallons a day. My tank is 240 gallons and about 260-270 total water volume. I went ahead and purchased an algae scrubber, adaptive reef ATS 300 size, supposedly oversized for my current setup. I stopped water changes and carbon dosing to give the scrubber the opportunity to start growing stuff. It has taken about a week and I can see some golden growth. I checked phosphate today and BAM…..they have gone to 0.74, my elegance is ticked us. Which is my trigger coral. They have never been this high. Do I continue the course or do I add some phosguard and try to assist the scrubber? I still continue to keep the lights on 24/7 on the scrubber. I also run my skimmer 24/7 and is pulling the normal gunk it pulls out.

Parameters right now:
Nitrate: 8.7
Phosphate 0.74
Alk:8.4
Calcium: 435
Magnesium:1367

I have been adding the drops which are included in the scrubber to support iron, etc. I don’t have any algea anywhere in my tank, other than coralline, Never have. I run a pretty good UV which I think kept it away. I turned the UV off when I added the scrubber but will turn it on later on.

Any advise…..

 

[TX_REEF]

Once the scrubber has a solid mat of algae established, you should see phosphate start to get consumed. I wouldn't go the chemical route unless all else truly fails.

 

[exnisstech]

Maybe whatever is in the drops caused the increase in PO4 or the fact that you stopped the carbon dosing?

 

[Luisn17]

Maybe whatever is in the drops caused the increase in PO4 or the fact that you stopped the carbon dosing?

The feeding has been the same. I thought maybe this big jump happened because I stopped carbon dosing. I have noticed my ORP which was usually in the high 300 is now at 300. I will stop the drops to see if that helps and maybe this things really starts pulling phosphates out.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

You have to let the scrubber ramp up to capacity before changing anything else. It can take 4-6 weeks for a scrubber to start growing enough algae consistently.

If I read your post correctly, you abruptly stopped something else, correct? If that is the case, that was also probably not the right move. In general, make changes slowly.

The ramp-up time for a scrubber is inherently a slow change so you can just let that go at it's own pace, but leave everything else as is and see what happens. Every system is different, so while one person might have to cut off something to spur algae growth on the scrubber, another person might have no issues at all. So pre-emtively making that change is not something I would recommend.

 

[Luisn17]

You have to let the scrubber ramp up to capacity before changing anything else. It can take 4-6 weeks for a scrubber to start growing enough algae consistently.

If I read your post correctly, you abruptly stopped something else, correct? If that is the case, that was also probably not the right move. In general, make changes slowly.

The ramp-up time for a scrubber is inherently a slow change so you can just let that go at it's own pace, but leave everything else as is and see what happens. Every system is different, so while one person might have to cut off something to spur algae growth on the scrubber, another person might have no issues at all. So pre-emtively making that change is not something I would recommend.

Yes, I was carbon dosing and stopped cold turkey since I thought it was going to prevent growth on the scrubber. Based on your reply, maybe I should have slowly slowed down the dosing. My only high level is phosphate. Never had an issue with nitrate. I was thinking about restarting carbon dosing prior to your reply since 0.19 should still be high enough to allow the scrubber to grow algae. Off course it makes sense now versus like you said reading someone article.

Do you recommend I continue the lights 24/7 until I see green algae or I start reaching phosphate under 0.10. I still only see this yellow looking “algae”

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

I would not start on 24/7 lighting to begin with - you can cause photosaturation because there is not enough algae to adsorb the incoming light, so the algae cells just "lock up". Knock it back to ~8 hours/day and if needed, break that up into 2-4 hour periods with an hour between. Then once you get a full coverage of algae (probably a week or two) then you can close the gaps (go to continuous photoperiod) and/or start adding hours. Something like adding 1-2 hours/day once a week until you get to about 18 hours/day and then hold for a while and observe.

I would ramp up your carbon dosing slowly until you start to see it stabilize. Offhand I'd say over the course of a week, ramp it up to 50% of where you were and hold for a bit and observe. Rising phosphate can tick off corals but so can dropping it out suddenly (that's arguably worse). Any measurable phosphate will be good for the scrubber, even if you can't measure it that's generally OK as long as it's not bottomed out.

Once you get to that 18hr/d photoperiod, you're probably going to start seeing the effects of the scrubber on the phosphate level. So you hold it there while you adjust carbon dosing, give that a couple of weeks. You might not need to go past 18 hr/d (or you might not even get to 18 hr/d). It's all about finding a balance point.

You are correct that carbon dosing can inhibit a scrubber's growth, but it depends on the form. I've seen tanks with full biopellet reactors running with a scrubber and the growth was phenomenal. My experience with vinegar dosing - that tended to interfere with the scrubber growth.

One of my arguments (mainly based on anecdotal, but there is some chemistry/science behind it) is that an algae scrubber is actually a form of carbon dosing. There is definitely a symbiotic relationship between bacteria and algae, and when you harvest and remove the algae you are removing bacteria and biofilm - the algae mat is a dynamic growth surface for both. So you may, over time, find that you can reduce your carbon dosing - but you want to watch your phosphate levels and once you see it start to drop off, that's when you back off on the carbon dosing.

Same for Nitrate, watch that for drop off. That will drop quickly once the scrubber gets rolling, but there's almost always nitrogen in the system in various forms - you just can't accurately test for that with hobby-grade test kits very well (or lab grade for that matter). It's generally when you run filtration aggressively that you truly bottom things out. But you can bottom out one nutrient/element and limit processes that require that element. Usually that's Nitrate, so if you are wanting to lower Phosphate to zero for some reason (I wouldn't) then you might have to dose.

 

[Luisn17]

I would not start on 24/7 lighting to begin with - you can cause photosaturation because there is not enough algae to adsorb the incoming light, so the algae cells just "lock up". Knock it back to ~8 hours/day and if needed, break that up into 2-4 hour periods with an hour between. Then once you get a full coverage of algae (probably a week or two) then you can close the gaps (go to continuous photoperiod) and/or start adding hours. Something like adding 1-2 hours/day once a week until you get to about 18 hours/day and then hold for a while and observe.

I would ramp up your carbon dosing slowly until you start to see it stabilize. Offhand I'd say over the course of a week, ramp it up to 50% of where you were and hold for a bit and observe. Rising phosphate can tick off corals but so can dropping it out suddenly (that's arguably worse). Any measurable phosphate will be good for the scrubber, even if you can't measure it that's generally OK as long as it's not bottomed out.

Once you get to that 18hr/d photoperiod, you're probably going to start seeing the effects of the scrubber on the phosphate level. So you hold it there while you adjust carbon dosing, give that a couple of weeks. You might not need to go past 18 hr/d (or you might not even get to 18 hr/d). It's all about finding a balance point.

You are correct that carbon dosing can inhibit a scrubber's growth, but it depends on the form. I've seen tanks with full biopellet reactors running with a scrubber and the growth was phenomenal. My experience with vinegar dosing - that tended to interfere with the scrubber growth.

One of my arguments (mainly based on anecdotal, but there is some chemistry/science behind it) is that an algae scrubber is actually a form of carbon dosing. There is definitely a symbiotic relationship between bacteria and algae, and when you harvest and remove the algae you are removing bacteria and biofilm - the algae mat is a dynamic growth surface for both. So you may, over time, find that you can reduce your carbon dosing - but you want to watch your phosphate levels and once you see it start to drop off, that's when you back off on the carbon dosing.

Same for Nitrate, watch that for drop off. That will drop quickly once the scrubber gets rolling, but there's almost always nitrogen in the system in various forms - you just can't accurately test for that with hobby-grade test kits very well (or lab grade for that matter). It's generally when you run filtration aggressively that you truly bottom things out. But you can bottom out one nutrient/element and limit processes that require that element. Usually that's Nitrate, so if you are wanting to lower Phosphate to zero for some reason (I wouldn't) then you might have to dose.

Thank you so much for your complete answer. I did restart carbon dosing, is the tropic marin brand, I believe is vinegar based. I did adjust the light period of the scrubber to only be on at night for 8 hrs. I have been testing every 2 days nitrate and phosphate, I was unsure how the tank was going to react. I was afraid I was going to bottom out…..I was so naive…lol. I will continue testing and adjusting things until this scrubber fully comes online. On the positive, my “warning coral”, the elegance is looking better which leads me to believe phosphates are lower than the 0.74. I will know for sure tomorrow when I test. It still looks ticked off but much better.

Thank you!