Need Algae advice or maybe just encouragement

[PigDaddyF15E]

My IM 100 EXT is just short of a year old. Diatoms at first that went away then a few months later some tufts of green hairy algae. It died back and stayed that way for a while but the last couple of months it's been coming back and I'm not winning. It's choking out some zoa's (Did H2O2 dip but now it's coming back). Nutrients are starting to bottom out as I'm assuming the algae is consuming it all. I'll post numbers, ICP results, and photos below.

Started a refugium a couple of months ago with some Chaeto but all the grow light (Kessil H80) seemed to do was grow even more algae in the sump while that Chaeto didn't/hasn't grown very much. The chaeto was probably the sized of a closed fist when I got it and is now probably double that size...with tufts of algae growing on it now! I've been dosing Chaetogro (ICP Test from Aug showed no Iron). At first one capful several times a week but I cut back to only a couple times a week as I thought it might be helping the algae grow more than the Chaeto. Refugium is on a 12 hour cycle that is opposite my DT lights.

I feed TDO chroma in the morning and a alternating schedule of Flake, frozen mysis, oyster for the evening feed. Fish are consuming it and I'm not seeing lots of it settle to the bottom. I dose AB+ 3 days a week with BRS Reef Chili 3 other days per week. I've been dosing a tsp of PhytoLive in the Sump as I added Copepods when I ordered the Chaeto from Algaebarn...haven't seen any since. I've upped the phytolive to 2 tsp in the DT/1 in Sump during the nightly "coral" feed (return off...so the supplement can circulate in the tank only for 25 minutes). As the algae got worse over the last few weeks I've cut back on the AB+ and Reef Chili to only a couple times a week.

I was skimming dryer but I've dialed it up to pull more out. Filter roller is in the first part of the sump, then the skimmer, the the refugium, then the return.

I run a Pentair 25W UV plumbed into my return line. 520 gph. (pentair says 472 - 788 for "algae&bacteria water flow rate".

CUC consists of: 2 tux urchins, 2 turbo, some astrea, many cerinth, nerite, nasarius, and hermits.

I've considered doing a blackout but I ran into several threads that say it's just gonna come back if you don't fix the underlying problem.

I do a 12 gallon (roughly 10%) water change every week. Tropic Marin Pro-Reef. RO/DI cartridges where changed out a couple of months ago with the inline TDS meter showing input water of around 125 but zero on the output.

Temp: 78F
Salinity: 35 ppt
Phos: 0.03 (Hanna ULR) the other day...but 0.01 for the two weeks prior. Down from a high of 0.14 end of Aug. average 0.05 from then back to Jun
Nitrate: 0.9 (Hanna)the other day. 0.0 from Jan to May. Started dosing then quit when it hit 9.7 Since end of Aug it was 1.5 then rose to 6.3 mid sep and bottomed out
Calcium: (Hanna and Salifert)around 450 since Feb (Haven't really had to dose...water changes seem to keep close to 450)
Mag: (Hanna and Aquaforest)around 1350 (water changes keep it this way)
Alk: around 9.0 since July (dos BRS liquid Soda ash to target 9.0)

 

[kingoftheHiLLpeople]

Ok so its about night night time here but i noticed your phosphate and nitrates fluctuate like nobodies business. Do you prune the algae - which appears to be predominately on the sand - regularly?

 

[kingoftheHiLLpeople]

And you got this @PigDaddyF15E. Itll get better! All good!

 

[Derrick0580]

Looks like bryopsis, reef flux rx is ur friend

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

 

[Cali Reef Life]

Let's break it down to the simplest stop dosing anything not necessary for coral growth alk calcium and mag. Try one thing at a time to fix the issue meaning you wait 2 weeks after even stopping dosing and feeding coral before you try something else. Your not alone and it takes months sometimes to fix a problem that took awhile to occur.
Here's a thread I created to help and show your not alone. It's taken me 2 months of doing it to finally see the results. I haven't posted in a few weeks but I'm close to overcoming red turf algae but it will be a couple more months before it's gone. You got this!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...air-algae-turf-algae-diatoms-and-more.927706/

 

[mdb_talon]

Based off the pics I would say your best approach would be more manual intervention. Once algae is in the tank in large amounts it can be difficult to get it cleaned out with just a cleanup crew or reduction in nutrients(without also starving everything else) However manual removal can work wonders and often can be long lasting if you are feeding reasonable.

Picking out the clumps and a toothbrush to the rock(while siphoning out what floats off) is a great approach. It does not look like bryopsis to me, but if it is then I would probably go the route of flucazanole

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

Here is an interesting thread with a solution.

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Thanks for the replies. I do scrub the rock every week during my water change and remove as much as I can. I also net out as much as possible when the pumps come back on and stirs things up in the tank.

I also stir up the top of the sandbed as the algae causes the sand to clump together. Last week it was several cups of sand I ended up pulling out. I dropped that in an H2O2 solution for a couple of days before I cleaned it as best I could and put it back in the tank. (notice the shells in the first pic...on the right side...those were in the H2O2 bath as well).

 

[I never finish anythi]

Get more flow in that area see if that helps !

 

[TokenReefer]

Let all the stuff growing in your refugium grow as you pick those clumps (and sand its stuck to) out manually along with what's on the rocks etc. Get into a routine and do not falter. Maybe you need to start doing wc with your manual removal more often... Say every 4 days... Adjust as necessary until nothing comes back between your water changes... Hopefully the algae will shift and ONLY grow in the refugium and you'll start seeing results... Worry about the type of macro (cheato vs gha) that grows after you've accomplished this. Just my .02 good luck

 

[jmatt]

When did this hobby become so impossible? How does someone like you, who is on top of his numbers, performing routine maintenance as required, and with state of the art reefing gear, have trouble with algae even after being up for a year?

I will start my own tank soon enough and posts like yours scare the heck out of me.

Anyway, I have nothing to offer other than to wish you good luck!

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

UPDATE: No real improvement...at least not that I can see.

I quit dosing everything except ALK (No real demand for CA or Mag based on the few corals I have). Feeding is still twice a day but I reduced the amount of the morning feed (plank autofeeder) but I've always gotten inconsistent results with it. The afternoon feeding is one cube of V2O frozen Mysis or Oyster or Flakes that I cycle through. Not seeing leftovers hitting the sand...and if they do the cleaner shrimp make short work of it and/or the pumps pick it back up and circulate it around. It's possible food isn't getting eaten. The nutrients have to be coming from somewhere

I decided to try Reef Flux. Added that on Wednesday (after lights out) and have not done any water changes. Thurs morning it looked like the algae was showing some bubbles on it, which I took as a good sign, but I did not see any bubbles after the inital 24 hours. Although it's only been five days. I see no change from adding the Reef Flux.

I did scrub the rocks on Saturday (my normal water change days). I made sure to get out as much as possible and I would advance my filter roller to make sure it was pulling the algae that did get into the first stage of the sump. Probably will scrub again tonight (Mon) as well as Thursday to make sure I'm getting as much as I can off the rocks.

Took out several handfuls in total of sand that was "matted" with algae. Dropped that in a container and put in a mixture of around 50/50 Hydrogen Peroxide / RO water. That seems to have "dissolved" some of the algae but the mats seem to be resistant to breaking apart. I just don't want to get into the habit of just tossing the mats with the sand out...as that would add up over time to quite a bit of sand IMO.

Haven't made any changes yet but wondering if I might need to dial down the lights. I seen some discussion on more blue vs white...I think I'm already running pretty heavy on the blue side. Not going to make any changes for a while as we see how the Reef Flux, No dosing, scrubbing is working out.

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Get more flow in that area see if that helps !

At this point I've got an MP40 on either end. one high...one low. They are pumping 1800GPH. My torch is getting borderline too much IMO

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

BATTLE UPDATE: Well....the algae is getting thinner in the DT but continues to grow like gangbusters in the refugium.

Overall less algae in the DT than a couple of weeks ago. Algae in the Refugium seems to be growing about the same. I've been stirring the top of the sand and scrubbing the rocks every day. I'm noticing a pretty steady/rapid growth of algae near the top of the rockwork and in the cracks that are hard to get to with my brushes. I'm wondering if my AP9X's need to be dialed down a little.

I did a 72 lights out starting last thursday. I didn't fully black it out...I just kept the lights off.

My rollermat gets a pretty good coating of algae every few hours. It's not quite enough to back the water up and advance the roller...so I manually check it every few hours and roll it. I'm taking that as a good sign...as the algae is breaking up somewhere and getting pulled down into the filter

Based on the amount of algae I found in the refugium today...I'm backing my refugium lighting schedule off. I was doing 12 hours so I reduced it to 10. The Chaeto has algae on the side closest to the light

On the not so good side. A few strands of hair algae continue to cling to my Zoa frags. 3 of the five seem to be tolerating...but 2 aren't. It's been a couple of weeks since i dipped the whole rock in a H2O2 solution....might be time for a spot treatment of the frags. Haven't seen the polyps from one of them for over a week. The other has a couple on the side (new growth) that are open but the original polyps are closed up

 

[Cali Reef Life]

Keep up the work just an fyi my refuge has a bunch of algae and chaeto but I simple pull the algae every other week as an export better in the refuge then in the tank.

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

So whatever I'm doing is not working. Algae seemed to die down within a week or so of adding the Reef Flux...but it's coming back just as bad as before. I've added nothing except some Liquid Soda ash to keep the DKH near 9.0 Feeding only once a day which consists of the rotation stated in the OP. I dialed back the refugium because I was growing crazy amounts of algae in it without growing a crazy amount of Chaeto.

I continue to scrub the rocks and catch what I can in a net (No water changes until this Saturday per the recommendations on Reef Flux).

Algae continues to choke out my Zoas. I have tried a spot treatment of Hydrogen Peroxide..and it kills the algae...but it just keeps coming back. Can't just keep hitting the Zoas with that.

Even went so far as you dial back my Lights a little bit about 20%. Haven't remeasured PAR with my meter...but I don't have any high PAR corals ATM. Will post my AP9X schedule below...Now 25 Noon...so roughly scale back the numbers below by 20%.

Numbers as of 29 Oct:

DKH 8.9 (9.0) is my target
Phosphate 0.05
Nitrate 0.00
Calcium 421
Magnesium 1260

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Ordered a microscope so I can get a positive ID. Algae seems to be just as bad as when I posted initially. I continue to scrub and catch as much as I can. Filter roller catches quite a bit as well so I keep it advanced so the algae doesn't sit in the sump to break down.

Here is the lowered light schedule. I also eliminated the white light. I'll measure PAR this weekend.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

So whatever I'm doing is not working. Algae seemed to die down within a week or so of adding the Reef Flux...but it's coming back just as bad as before. I've added nothing except some Liquid Soda ash to keep the DKH near 9.0 Feeding only once a day which consists of the rotation stated in the OP. I dialed back the refugium because I was growing crazy amounts of algae in it without growing a crazy amount of Chaeto.

I continue to scrub the rocks and catch what I can in a net (No water changes until this Saturday per the recommendations on Reef Flux).

Algae continues to choke out my Zoas. I have tried a spot treatment of Hydrogen Peroxide..and it kills the algae...but it just keeps coming back. Can't just keep hitting the Zoas with that.

Even went so far as you dial back my Lights a little bit about 20%. Haven't remeasured PAR with my meter...but I don't have any high PAR corals ATM. Will post my AP9X schedule below...Now 25 Noon...so roughly scale back the numbers below by 20%.

Numbers as of 29 Oct:

DKH 8.9 (9.0) is my target
Phosphate 0.05
Nitrate 0.00
Calcium 421
Magnesium 1260

Keep at it! Elbow grease with vigorous scrubbing and regular export is required! But it may take months! Scrub the rocks with a stiff nylon brush in a bucket of tank water to be discarded. I find that more effective than scrubbing in the display tank then catching in a net or filter sock. Let the stuff grow for a week or two then scrub. It will come around. I never used algaecides, peroxide, or even a CUC! Now I worry there’s no algae for tangs, lawn mower blenny, or dwarf angels. But after hair algae came bubble algae and cyano. I did the same for those. And after 3 years the battle has been won!!!!

 

[PigDaddyF15E]

Keep at it! Elbow grease with vigorous scrubbing and regular export is required! But it may take months! Scrub the rocks with a stiff nylon brush in a bucket of tank water to be discarded. I find that more effective than scrubbing in the display tank then catching in a net or filter sock. Let the stuff grow for a week or two then scrub. It will come around. I never used algaecides, peroxide, or even a CUC! Now I worry there’s no algae for tangs, lawn mower blenny, or dwarf angels. But after hair algae came bubble algae and cyano. I did the same for those. And after 3 years the battle has been won!!!!

THREE YEARS!! You have the patience of a saint

Rockwork is mortared together so I can't take it out. The issue seems to be that the rock has so many little depressions/holes in it...that the algae grows up out of that...and then I can't get a brush in there to dislodge it.

I've got a Tang and lawnmower blenny on the way as well as a few trochus and turbo snails to boost my CUC. I wouldn't mind having them do such a good job that I have to feed them!! I've got seaweed and some wafers ready to go.