My UN-Fortunate Experience with Reef Gardens (AZ)

KENNYSREEF · Jan 21, 2021

*Disclaimer*

First and foremost, this is my own opinion and unfortunate experience working with Reef Gardens and Manny. You are bound to your own opinion, and so am I. I just ask for you to fully read through the post and see it from my point of view.

Background:

I've known of Manny Sanchez and Reef Gardens ever since I joined the hobby in the summer of 2019, he's known for building some of the best lids and acrylic aquarium products here in the Valley. Additionally, he performs tank service on many clients across the East Valley for many of the hobbyists that may or not be reading this post right now. Over the year and a half since I've been in the hobby, I've purchased from Manny many times, ranging from my first large tanks to lids for my tanks. He always provided top-notch service in a timely manner. I never had any complaints and I even considered him a good friend in the hobby. A person I could always count on if I had any questions. I never hesitated to reefer my friends to Manny, cause I knew he would take care of them as he has done for me countless times before.

You're probably now wondering, why is KPHAM saying all these nice things about Manny? I thought this was supposed to be a roast about his unparallel unprofessionalism? Oh, don't worry, I'm about to get started.

Story/Timeline:

11/9/2020: I messaged Manny telling him that I wanted to purchase one of his new 15g ATO he was selling, cause it looked awesome and would fit exactly where I needed it to.

11/14/2020: Manny comes over to my house and drops off the ATO. I inspected the ATO but noticed that the seams of the ATO had bubbles and the paneling was scratched. I honestly wasn't happy about what I saw, because this wasn't the type of quality I'm used to seeing from Manny. I asked him if he could re-do it for me, as I wasn't pleased with the quality. He told me "No problem!". In my mind, I was like great, same great customer service I expected from Manny.

11/17/2020: I ask him how the ATO was coming along? No response

11/18/2020: He responds and apologizes that he just saw my text message. Reasonable? Sure. He tells me the ATO will be ready on Saturday (11/21/2020). I was like Sweet, I'll finally get my ATO! *The Suspense*

11/21/2020: I ask him if he was coming by to drop off the ATO. He responds and says he wouldn't be able to make it today cause he was still working on my ATO and 4 other sumps. At this point, I'm a little aggravated cause he broke his original promise of having it done by 11/21/2020, but I just brush it off cause I'm understanding. I respond back to him and say no worries. I ask him when it will be done? No response... of course.

11/25/2020: I text him about an unrelated project, and he responds the same day as if I hadn't asked about my ATO on the 11/21. Still no update....

11/26/2020: Got a Happy Thanksgiving text from Manny! WOOOHOOO! However, still no ATO...

11/27/2020: Ask him about the ATO, again.... Of course, no response.

12/2/2020: Welcome to December everyone!

I text him again to see if he had an ETA on when the ATO was going to be done. He responds and says, is Friday (12/4/2020) okay? Of course, I said yes! I've been waiting on this ATO.

12/5/2020: Ask him if we were still on for him finishing the ATO and bringing over the ATO for me? He responds and says he is still working on my ATO, and he's had some issues with his machine and finally got it set back up. I'm honestly pretty ticked off at this point, but I just say no worries. He responds and says he is still working on 4 more sumps and a dosing container and will let me know as soon as he gets it done and says that it will be one of the first things are done since it is the 2nd smallest item he was working. Sounds reasonable? Sure... I guess.

12/14/2020: I've been busy with work so I haven't been following up with him as much as I should, but he texts me and says He doesn't have my ATO yet... I tell him he's killing me... cause literally it's killing me cause its exactly 1 month after he's dropped off the original one with the scratches and bubbly seams. Ask him when the ATO will be done, he tells me Friday night (12/18).

12/18/2020: ATO DAY?!?! Maybe... Maybe not... Let me finish this story.... I text him and ask him if he was dropping it off tonight? He texts me and says he couldn't finish it, but offers me the ability to use the one he messed up or give me my money back. He apologizes for the inconvenience but he needed to finish Anthony DeFrancesco's sump, which he is basically building for free cause he's delayed Anthony basically a year on his sump, but that is a story Anthony can tell. He says he can't take on any other acrylic jobs besides the lids. He has all the parts for it already cut and is ready to glue, but he couldn't get to gluing it until Sunday (12/20). At this point, I'm short on my fuse already cause I'm assuming he's been lying to me for over a month about starting on my ATO when he's never even touched it... Also, who offers a full refund when you've already cut the acrylic sheets? Like just get it done. I tell him, Two day isn't going to kill me, but delays after delays were what was klling me. I tell him to just be straight up with me. Of course, no response.

12/19/2020: Ask him if we were meeting tomorrow (12/20), he says No, cause he's not going to be able to do it till tomorrow and it takes 2 more days to cure and on this other crap. Fine. I'll wait again...

12/22/2020: Ask him what the progress was? He tells me its halfway done... wooooohooo. Ask him 1/2 done gluing or 1/2 done curing? No response.

12/25/2020: He wishes me Merry Christmas... great, wheres my ATO?!?! No response

12/27/2020: Tells me he is delivering it this week. Ask him when? He says he can't say... This is where I get ticked. I told him he told me he was 1/2 way done last Tuesday. He says it's still 1/2 way done cause he was spending time with his family. At this point I was ticked.... See below for screenshot of the conversation:

Basically, he tries to refund me again!!! Like dude, if you're really halfway done, do you really try to refund your customer and speak to them like that? At this point, I'm beyond livid cause this is beyond ridiculous. I'm honestly appalled at this point that he is actually speaking to me like this... Whatever brush it off.

12/30/2020: Ask him if he is bringing it by today? He says No cause he is spending time with his daughters who he doesn't live with. That's fine I'm understanding of that situation. Ask him if it was done? He says 90%.

1/2/21: Tell him I need ATO done today, ask him if he is done? What's the answer? Of course, he is not done, cause he said he got a lot of bubbles on it again and needs to cut it again on the big CNC machine instead of the laser. I jokingly tell him, is this going to take him another 3 weeks? He responds and says he's going to have his guys cut it on Monday (1/4) during work hours then work on it until it's done.

1/6/21: Figure I give him a few days to build it and cure... Ask him whats the progress? No answer.

1/8/21: Again, I'm ticked... ask him what the progress was cause it was Friday. He responds and says no later than next week... I ask him next week when? He responds no later than next week.... this is where I get ticked off and said: "ARE YOU ******** ME?" He then responds and says goodbye and have a nice day, and basically tells me I can't speak to him like that... literally all I said was are you ******** me.... he proceeds to block me and refunds me my $180 via PayPal.. At this point, I'm so dang ticked off... Like how do you treat a long time customer like this? See screenshot below:

You can see where he blocks me cause my messages from my iPhone starts sending in green instead of blue...

First, if you're still reading this post, I commend you for sticking through this. Secondly, I'm honestly appalled by the way Manny has treated me and so many people in this hobby. After this incident, I've been told countless other stories that closely resemble my experience that others have gone through with Manny. Bunch of false promises and delays. It's not a way to do business, and sooner or later, his business will suffer from it. He takes on way more than he can handle, he leaves the customer in the dust asking questions.. with no responses.

Since then, I've bought another ATO and reported his business to the BBB.

Thanks for reading... reef on dudes.

tcamos · Jan 21, 2021

"First, if you're still reading this post, I commend you for sticking through this."
Having read the whole post I will play devil's advocate.

I owned a small business for years. It was just me. Word of mouth started getting me more clients. Eventually I had so many I couldn't keep up but not so many that I could afford to hire anyone to help me. Eventually I had to prioritize the work and sometimes that meant moving things back a week or two, sometimes three. For me I eventually decided to stop and after years of this I had to just not take on new clients and if one left I didn't try to replace them or keep them. I still have a few clients just because they have been with me so long.

I did a lot of apologizing before I admitted to myself it was too much. As I read your post I suspect that might be the situation he finds himself in. I suspect he's honestly stressed and trying hard to manage it all. Just a guess of course.

As for the end - there are still a lot of people who get offended at cursing. I don't like it all myself. I likely would have had a similar reaction in asking you not to use that language. And he was still polite. He acknowledged that you were mad and didn't try to take that anger away or say it was illegitimate. He said he knew you have a reason to be mad. He just said be mad but don't curse at him.

"It's not a way to do business, and sooner or later, his business will suffer from it. " Absolutely true. It will. Likely it already has if your case isn't a one-off.

Looking at it from the outside, only guessing based on your side and not his, I think he's just probably really stressed. Rather than say he was lying to you all along I think he probably really meant it each time he gave you a deadline. Those deadlines were probably more for himself than you. And he failed to meet them. I think when he said you could get your money back and you said you didn't want it, you wanted the ATO, that was his way, subconsciously, of admitting defeat.

If you have had good experiences with him more often than not, and you do consider him a friend, maybe now that you got it off your chest you could "shake hands" and let it be in the past.

KENNYSREEF · Jan 21, 2021

tcamos said:
"First, if you're still reading this post, I commend you for sticking through this."
Having read the whole post I will play devil's advocate.

I owned a small business for years. It was just me. Word of mouth started getting me more clients. Eventually I had so many I couldn't keep up but not so many that I could afford to hire anyone to help me. Eventually I had to prioritize the work and sometimes that meant moving things back a week or two, sometimes three. For me I eventually decided to stop and after years of this I had to just not take on new clients and if one left I didn't try to replace them or keep them. I still have a few clients just because they have been with me so long.

I did a lot of apologizing before I admitted to myself it was too much. As I read your post I suspect that might be the situation he finds himself in. I suspect he's honestly stressed and trying hard to manage it all. Just a guess of course.

As for the end - there are still a lot of people who get offended at cursing. I don't like it all myself. I likely would have had a similar reaction in asking you not to use that language. And he was still polite. He acknowledged that you were mad and didn't try to take that anger away or say it was illegitimate. He said he knew you have a reason to be mad. He just said be mad but don't curse at him.

"It's not a way to do business, and sooner or later, his business will suffer from it. " Absolutely true. It will. Likely it already has if your case isn't a one-off.

Looking at it from the outside, only guessing based on your side and not his, I think he's just probably really stressed. Rather than say he was lying to you all along I think he probably really meant it each time he gave you a deadline. Those deadlines were probably more for himself than you. And he failed to meet them. I think when he said you could get your money back and you said you didn't want it, you wanted the ATO, that was his way, subconsciously, of admitting defeat.

If you have had good experiences with him more often than not, and you do consider him a friend, maybe now that you got it off your chest you could "shake hands" and let it be in the past.

Hey,

I really appreciate your input and you do make some really good points, that I've actually have already considered.

Prior to this post and additional emotions, I've tried to reach out and "shake hands", but I've not received a response or an apology at this point. I try my best to support all my friend's businesses in any way I can, but when people get treated like this? I think it's about time someone goes public about him.

Also, as a business owner myself, I'm understanding of delays and issues, but when excuses don't add up to prior excuses, it's time to call out the crap. $180 is chump change, it's not a large amount of money, but my time wasted for 2 months, is what I feel like in this situation was costly. The opportunity cost that I lost and could have ordered another ATO elsewhere if he really knew he couldn't get it done.

When you're a business, and you mess up, you need to own up to it. In this case, he ran away from it and now it's catching up to him via a bad reputation and a report to the BBB.