My new QT treatment logic.

Reefahholic · Mar 7, 2017

So now I'm changing my game plan on most new arrivals. I've been dosing CP (40mg) during TTM coupled with Prazipro.

I feel it's about the safest route to go considering that nearly all fish I've seen lately have a Parasite, Flukes, Bacterial infection, Viral infection, etc, etc. We know that nothing can rid a Virus, but for almost everything else, we can treat it. That being said...TTM will get every fish with ICH. CP "should" cover ICH, Velvet, Brook, Uronema. Prazipro "should" get Flukes/most worms, and internal parasites. It's been said that CP may even treat Turbellarian worms that were able to tolerate Prazipro treatments at the Georgia Aquarium.

So just think...right there you eliminate so many potential issues from infecting/entering your display.

BUT wait....it gets better.....

But running CP with TTM, you increase your chances of a successful Tank Transfer Method by more than 50%. That's right! Nip it in the butt! ICH is the #1 most annoying parasite we all have to deal with. Even those in the freshwater hobby.

When you dose CP, you basically prevent any Theronts or Dinospores from landing on the fish. So logically, the tank transfer method may be shorter in the future. Why? Because we know that the Trophont will normally spend 3-7 days (depending on temp) feeding on the fish. Then it drops off. So if the CP prevents any further Theronts or Dinospores from landing on the fish, with more testing, we may be able to reduce the amount of transfers done. This will save time, money, headache, and most important.....decrease stress on the fish.

fabutahoun · Mar 7, 2017

Inserting Topic I was thinking the same thing earlier, but i never did it I always treat with 2 weeks parzi and 2 weeks copper , but combining both TTM and copper looks interesting.

Reefahholic · Mar 7, 2017

fabutahoun said:
Inserting Topic I was thing the same thing earlier, but i never did it I always treat with 2 weeks parzi and 2 weeks copper , but combining both TTM and copper looks interesting.

Copper is a great drug. It will do exactly the same thing. The only reason why I've started to shift more to CP is because there's no ramp up period and it covers a wider range of parasites. If you think about it, it makes total sense. I've had 100% success with TTM and now that I've been combining it with drugs, I feel 200% safe.

fernalfer · Mar 7, 2017

Reefahholic said:
Copper is a great drug. It will do exactly the same thing. The only reason why I've started to shift more to CP is because there's no ramp up period and it covers a wider range of parasites. If you think about it, it makes total sense. I've had 100% success with TTM and now that I've been combining it with drugs, I feel 200% safe.

The problem is getting your hands on CP

Humblefish · Mar 7, 2017

Mixing CP + Prazipro led to a disastrous bacterial bloom for me on one occasion. Lost a CBB and a Chevron Tang barely survived, but only after I emergency transferred him into a frag tank.

I haven't had a repeat of that since switching over to pure praziquantel powder. But I'm still struggling to find the right solubilizing agent to dissolve the powder with; one which won't cause negative interaction with CP and other meds.

Reefahholic · Mar 7, 2017

fernalfer said:
The problem is getting your hands on CP

My friend has 1000 grams of Pham CP right now.

Mine from EBay hasn't skipped a beat, so I haven't bought anymore yet.

Reefahholic · Mar 7, 2017

Humblefish said:
Mixing CP + Prazipro led to a disastrous bacterial bloom for me on one occasion. Lost a CBB and a Chevron Tang barely survived, but only after I emergency transferred him into a frag tank.

I haven't had a repeat of that since switching over to pure praziquantel powder. But I'm still struggling to find the right solubilizing agent to dissolve the powder with; one which won't cause negative interaction with CP and other meds.

So far, I haven't had any issues with blooms. I contribute the clear water to an aquaclear 110 on a small tank with a good airstone. Great oxygenation and aeration. You guys saw the video.

Reefahholic · Mar 7, 2017

The only small issue is the blue Caribbean tang has a few Lymphocyitis spots. We know it's viral- so not much we can do for it. For me, it's more of an eye sore than a problem. I just cut it off if they get big.

Reefahholic · Mar 8, 2017

Getting some good action on my local board:

I welcome any dialogue. My mind is also quick to analyze potential problems are possible failures. I encourage any comments both good or bad. Some of the concerns you had I already mentioned above.

Example:
You said..." Now you have a brand new fish that's been with you for only 7 days. You have no idea if its carrying marine velvet. You have no idea if it has the upstarts of a very contagious bacterial infection..."

I already mentioned this... "If the fish came from a known tank without Velvet and has already been treated for internal parasites...technically the fish could go into the DT only as little as 8 days." (You can add bacterial infection to this list)

3 full transfers periods of 72 hrs = 9 days. Technically you wouldn't need 9 days. You only need 7. I have a feeling that temp will play a huge role in the Theront contact time with the fish, but like I previously mentioned, we lack the research in different temps and how it affects marine ICH. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that higher temps drastically speed up the life cycle just as it does in FW. I think we'll see this in the very near future as more studies are completed.

As far as internal vs external, that's not an issue. Even in the presence of extreme external signs and symptoms, the best diagnostic tool is microscopic examination. Skin scrapings, gill clippings, and fin clippings will quickly identify our culprit. Most people never take it that far though.

I did read somewhere that ICH was the #1 killer of marine parasites due to it's habitual attacks in reef aquaria that were influenced by environmental triggers- which basically comes down to the fish/fishes being stressed. This usually leads to starvation (aka mysterious fish deaths) If I can find that article, I'll post it for you. I do think Velvet would take the cake if it were more common. However...lately it seems to be running a very close race.

One thing I can tell you from past experiences is about every-time I've personally had Velvet, it popped up around the 3 week mark. Plus it kills super fast. I'm definitely more scared of Velvet than ICH. It can't be managed. One time- I did see it completely cover and wreck a tang I had in a 5/G. The number of dinospores was nothing short of shocking. Imagine coming across a huge Fire Ant mound. Then you poke it in several spots with a stick and throw a piece of bacon in the middle. This was literally how this fish look. COVERED. It killed the fish in less than 24 hours. Just one Tomont can divide repeatedly and have 250+ offspring waiting on breakfast. I did notice that the dinospores dropped off at night, and at that time I thought it was a bad ICH infestation because I didn't know any better. Anyway It's been said that if Dinospores don't find a host within 6 days that they'll die. However, they could possibly remain infective as long as 15 days. We just lack enough research. So in conclusion....I'd much rather run medication such as Copper or CP while doing TTM to significantly increase my chances of preventing a funky disease from entering my display. The reason why I've kinda transitioned over to CP is because so far....I've had great success with it. Not to mention it covers more than copper does. I think dosing at 40mg will be OK for most fish and prevent any further Dinospores and Theronts from landing on the fish. So again...this will reduce treatment times, increase your chances for success, save money and headaches.