Multiple fish deaths over a three month period…

[inDcreations]

Hey guys,

Really at a loss - I’ve had this same aquarium for about 4 years now. I’ve been in the hobby for nearly 25 years now.

Tank is 50gal
Refugium with lotsa pods
Healthy coral
Large skimmer
8gal water changes every 2 weeks

Feeding spiralina brine, mysis, and rods sheet food and random pellets here and there.

I’ve had ICP tests on the RO water I use and the aquarium water, nothing is too far out of wack.

About 3 months ago, a very aggressive fat mocha clown became really skinny, but would still eat aggressively- I observed it and noticed it would spit food out after a couple seconds. I tried getting it to eat food soaked in metroplex and focus but it didn’t help. After about 2 weeks in this state the fish died. The fish was nearly 10 years old (came from an older aquarium), so I chalked this up to potentially old age.

About 3 weeks ago, the PERFECT aiptasia eating filefish also looked the same - very skinny, eating aggressively, but spitting food out. A couple days after I noticed it like this, it was dead.

Now I’ve noticed our leopard wrasse looking much the same and spitting food out as well. The leopard wrasse is about 4 years old(with us) and was always very healthy and fat, the other night I noticed it sleeping half in sand and half under a rock. I’ve gotten it to keep SOME food down, but all the big pieces it holds in then spits out (sometimes 3 shrimp at a time).

The only fish left in this aquarium is a very fat coral beauty angel - despite my kids begging me, I’m not adding anything else til I figure this out. The fish described have all been in the aquarium for 3+ years - I’ve added coral frags and clean up crew in that time.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey guys,

Really at a loss - I’ve had this same aquarium for about 4 years now. I’ve been in the hobby for nearly 25 years now.

Tank is 50gal
Refugium with lotsa pods
Healthy coral
Large skimmer
8gal water changes every 2 weeks

Feeding spiralina brine, mysis, and rods sheet food and random pellets here and there.

I’ve had ICP tests on the RO water I use and the aquarium water, nothing is too far out of wack.

About 3 months ago, a very aggressive fat mocha clown became really skinny, but would still eat aggressively- I observed it and noticed it would spit food out after a couple seconds. I tried getting it to eat food soaked in metroplex and focus but it didn’t help. After about 2 weeks in this state the fish died. The fish was nearly 10 years old (came from an older aquarium), so I chalked this up to potentially old age.

About 3 weeks ago, the PERFECT aiptasia eating filefish also looked the same - very skinny, eating aggressively, but spitting food out. A couple days after I noticed it like this, it was dead.

Now I’ve noticed our leopard wrasse looking much the same and spitting food out as well. The leopard wrasse is about 4 years old(with us) and was always very healthy and fat, the other night I noticed it sleeping half in sand and half under a rock. I’ve gotten it to keep SOME food down, but all the big pieces it holds in then spits out (sometimes 3 shrimp at a time).

The only fish left in this aquarium is a very fat coral beauty angel - despite my kids begging me, I’m not adding anything else til I figure this out. The fish described have all been in the aquarium for 3+ years - I’ve added coral frags and clean up crew in that time.

Spitting out the food is often associated with gill flukes due to irritation, If flukes, some signs you will see are gasping or yawning, elevated breathing, sudden darting, loss of appetite, hiding as examples.
What is current temperature - salinity- ammonia and PH ?

 

[inDcreations]

Spitting out the food is often associated with gill flukes due to irritation, If flukes, some signs you will see are gasping or yawning, elevated breathing, sudden darting, loss of appetite, hiding as examples.
What is current temperature - salinity- ammonia and PH ?

Thanks for the response!

I've spent a lot of time observing all three of these fish once I notice the decline.
None have displayed darting, elevated breathing, yawning or even a loss of appetite. All three aggressively chase food and eat it, they just spit each piece out several seconds later. The leopard wrasse is usually in sand like 15 minutes after the lights go out, tonight its circling the corner it usually sleeps in and the lights have been off for over an hour.

Temperature fluctuates between 77 and 78.5F
Salinity is 1.025
PH is 8.39
ammonia is undetectable

Should I try to put the wrasse into a QT tank? I'm worried its too weak at this point to go through that stress - I was able to feed some smaller chunks of food (chopped a little smaller) and I didn't see it spit that out.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the response!

I've spent a lot of time observing all three of these fish once I notice the decline.
None have displayed darting, elevated breathing, yawning or even a loss of appetite. All three aggressively chase food and eat it, they just spit each piece out several seconds later. The leopard wrasse is usually in sand like 15 minutes after the lights go out, tonight its circling the corner it usually sleeps in and the lights have been off for over an hour.

Temperature fluctuates between 77 and 78.5F
Salinity is 1.025
PH is 8.39
ammonia is undetectable

Should I try to put the wrasse into a QT tank? I'm worried its too weak at this point to go through that stress - I was able to feed some smaller chunks of food (chopped a little smaller) and I didn't see it spit that out.

QT would be a good start and assure youre not getting false readings in display tank

 

[Ross]

Thanks for the response!

I've spent a lot of time observing all three of these fish once I notice the decline.
None have displayed darting, elevated breathing, yawning or even a loss of appetite. All three aggressively chase food and eat it, they just spit each piece out several seconds later. The leopard wrasse is usually in sand like 15 minutes after the lights go out, tonight its circling the corner it usually sleeps in and the lights have been off for over an hour.

Temperature fluctuates between 77 and 78.5F
Salinity is 1.025
PH is 8.39
ammonia is undetectable

Should I try to put the wrasse into a QT tank? I'm worried its too weak at this point to go through that stress - I was able to feed some smaller chunks of food (chopped a little smaller) and I didn't see it spit that out.

I wouldn’t pull her out to quarantine without a plan and at least a good idea of a diagnosis. Wrasses, especially a leopard, do not like bare bottom sterile environments like a quarantine. Without a plan of action this will probably end badly.

One thing worth considering, I believe a leopards natural lifespan is only 5-7 years. It’s possible she’s just old.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey guys,

Really at a loss - I’ve had this same aquarium for about 4 years now. I’ve been in the hobby for nearly 25 years now.

Tank is 50gal
Refugium with lotsa pods
Healthy coral
Large skimmer
8gal water changes every 2 weeks

Feeding spiralina brine, mysis, and rods sheet food and random pellets here and there.

I’ve had ICP tests on the RO water I use and the aquarium water, nothing is too far out of wack.

About 3 months ago, a very aggressive fat mocha clown became really skinny, but would still eat aggressively- I observed it and noticed it would spit food out after a couple seconds. I tried getting it to eat food soaked in metroplex and focus but it didn’t help. After about 2 weeks in this state the fish died. The fish was nearly 10 years old (came from an older aquarium), so I chalked this up to potentially old age.

About 3 weeks ago, the PERFECT aiptasia eating filefish also looked the same - very skinny, eating aggressively, but spitting food out. A couple days after I noticed it like this, it was dead.

Now I’ve noticed our leopard wrasse looking much the same and spitting food out as well. The leopard wrasse is about 4 years old(with us) and was always very healthy and fat, the other night I noticed it sleeping half in sand and half under a rock. I’ve gotten it to keep SOME food down, but all the big pieces it holds in then spits out (sometimes 3 shrimp at a time).

The only fish left in this aquarium is a very fat coral beauty angel - despite my kids begging me, I’m not adding anything else til I figure this out. The fish described have all been in the aquarium for 3+ years - I’ve added coral frags and clean up crew in that time.

Can you post a video of the tank and the remaining fish? Sometimes, we can see something that you either missed, or didn't think was an issue.

One possibility here are internal flagellate protozoans. Spironucleous and Hexamita are normal gut flora, but in some cases, their populations explode and some fish get sick. Usually though, you will see white stringy feces at the same time.

Another chronic illness found in most aquariums, and that hits long term captives is Mycobacterium sp., fish tuberculosis. This is considered a disease of "old age" and will cause fish to waste away. However, that is not consistent with the symptoms you are seeing of the fish spitting food out.

It's a long shot, but did you change foods, or have any storage problems with the food you are feeding?

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the response!

I've spent a lot of time observing all three of these fish once I notice the decline.
None have displayed darting, elevated breathing, yawning or even a loss of appetite. All three aggressively chase food and eat it, they just spit each piece out several seconds later. The leopard wrasse is usually in sand like 15 minutes after the lights go out, tonight its circling the corner it usually sleeps in and the lights have been off for over an hour.

Temperature fluctuates between 77 and 78.5F
Salinity is 1.025
PH is 8.39
ammonia is undetectable

Should I try to put the wrasse into a QT tank? I'm worried its too weak at this point to go through that stress - I was able to feed some smaller chunks of food (chopped a little smaller) and I didn't see it spit that out.

If you are going to QT one fish you might as well treat them all. If >1 fish is not eating well/losing weight - one would have to think about an internal parasite or other disease process.

 

[inDcreations]

*update* she slept in the sand last night and today I saw her eat 31 bites of metroplex/focus soaked food and didn’t observe a single regurgitation. Fingers crossed she turns around.

Gave the tank a second feeding with mixture of brine, mysis, krill and she was actively eating then as well. No regurgitations observed. Video below.



Hopefully that works…

@Ross I considered old age too, but with the other two deaths I think something else is going on.

@Jay Hemdal video posted. This is the second time feeding medicated food today, huge improvement from what I’ve been seeing.

I haven’t seen her poop at all so I’m not sure if it’s white or stringy.

I don’t have any reason to believe the food is bad, she doesn’t eat pellet food but the frozen was all purchased in the last 3 months.

 

[Ross]

He is very skinny. Good thing that he’s eating but that skinny may be difficult to overcome. The other fish appear fine to me. I’d pump him full of as much Mysis and meaty food as he will eat. Soak it in selcon and metro/ focus if he’ll take it. Also, my leopard loves nori so that may help add some weight too.

 

[MnFish1]

Can I ask how you're choosing the dose for metronidazole orally? One problem with this (and soaking food in it) - is that its really practically impossible to ensure either that the fish is getting enough (if they are not eating/digesting well) and if they are eating too much there can be overdosage - which causes its own set of potential toxicity...

 

[inDcreations]

Can I ask how you're choosing the dose for metronidazole orally? One problem with this (and soaking food in it) - is that its really practically impossible to ensure either that the fish is getting enough (if they are not eating/digesting well) and if they are eating too much there can be overdosage - which causes its own set of potential toxicity...

Update - fish is still energetic yet very skinny. Other fish still fat and unbothered. I haven't noticed anything like yawning or scratching. Seems to be keeping food down now which is good.

I'm dosing it per the instructions on bottle, but err'ing on the side of under-dosing. I agree with your sentiments though about over-dosing or under-dosing it so really it was a last ditch effort to try and save this fish I saw going down the same path as the two fish we lost before it. The clownfish never was able to keep food down, so I'm taking this progress as a good sign for now.