Montipora dying with seemingly good parameters, flow, and lighting.

[ekandler]

I’ve asked this on other parts of R2R before with no success, so I thought I’d try here and see how it goes! Hopefully you guys have some insight for me.
So I've struggled to keep SPS for a while (my tank is almost 3 years old) and in the last 2 months I took more drastic measures to try and accommodate them which seem to have not worked. Recently I got a single Monti Cap frag to test out my fixes which is now dying from something. For normal parameters I have a Trident/DOS holding constant 8.6 dkh alk, 460 ppm calc, 1400 ppm magnesium, nitrate 8.5 (thank you hanna 782), phosphate 0.05, temp 77-78degF, pH 8.0-8.2. I use red sea blue bucket salt recently switched from Fritz after getting a bad batch, a 7 stage RODI to ensure my water is as pure as possible, and use the Tropic Marin A-/K+ trace elements mixed with my BRS 2 part dosing to maintain all necessary chemicals.

I don't believe lighting or flow are my issue, as I have happy thriving LPS/softie corals of various types, even gonis which are supposed to be super hard to keep... Having thriving gonis with dying montis makes me very sad ha

For completeness, I recently did an ICP test, results are attached. Weirdly it says my Mag is 1500 which my Trident has never shown that high and is calibrated every other month... Otherwise It says my Bromine is high (should be 0), Cobalt is low (should be 0.01ppm), Iron is low (should be .02ppm), Iodine is low (should be 0.05ppm), Manganese is low (should be 0.01ppm), and zinc is low (should be 0.02ppm). It's confusing because they switch from ppb to ppm but I think I have that right. Even though they are recommending those changes, I don’t think any of that would cause the issues I’m seeing with SPS.

One suggestion I’ve recently worked on was chemical warfare from a leather I had in my tank about a year ago that spawn. A couple days ago I removed all traces of it (a few baby leathers) from the tank during a water change, careful to not have any discharge get in the water.

otherwise I’m out of ideas… I took the monti cap out and dipped it in brightwell medicoral to help it recover, if it’s going to, but haven’t seen any change since.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You may have had a spike such as alk, ph or CA or low nutrients. These do best with moderate light and water flow.
Verify salinity also.
Seawater is often nutrient poor, and so direct absorption may not take place to a degree, or at a rate, that can provide enough nutrition. Secondly, even if there are adequate prey items for the coral to capture, the maintenance of capture mechanisms, such as nematocysts, are energetically costly. The coral may not be able to effectively maintain these structures and, therefore, be unable to effectively feed. Furthermore, it costs energy to swallow and digest prey items. For aquarists, this is readily obvious in bleaching coral that appear to have no interest or ability to capture food items offered to them. In the end, bleached corals operating at an energy deficiency must metabolize their own tissues to survive, and this is seen as recession and tissue death. It is also called starvation.
Corals bleach for a number of reasons, some of which were described above as regulatory processes. In more detail, the quantity and quality of photosynthetic products is a major factor. In particular, the production of oxygen by zooxanthellae can be especially problematic.

 

[Staghorn]

Your numbers seem good. Are they stable?

 

[ekandler]

You may have had a spike such as alk, ph or CA or low nutrients. These do best with moderate light and water flow.
Verify salinity also.
Seawater is often nutrient poor, and so direct absorption may not take place to a degree, or at a rate, that can provide enough nutrition. Secondly, even if there are adequate prey items for the coral to capture, the maintenance of capture mechanisms, such as nematocysts, are energetically costly. The coral may not be able to effectively maintain these structures and, therefore, be unable to effectively feed. Furthermore, it costs energy to swallow and digest prey items. For aquarists, this is readily obvious in bleaching coral that appear to have no interest or ability to capture food items offered to them. In the end, bleached corals operating at an energy deficiency must metabolize their own tissues to survive, and this is seen as recession and tissue death. It is also called starvation.
Corals bleach for a number of reasons, some of which were described above as regulatory processes. In more detail, the quantity and quality of photosynthetic products is a major factor. In particular, the production of oxygen by zooxanthellae can be especially problematic.

I don’t usually do any sort of coral food, like reef roids, but I do feed LRS reef frenzy daily which I always thought would be enough for the corals and fish, since it has a lot of food of various sizes. Would you recommend feeding something else specifically for corals? I thought my nutrient levels were adequate, I got the frag from a friend that had lower levels than mine but I didn’t think mine were too high.

The lighting shouldn’t be too high, my lights are XR30 blues and only at 40% during their peak for 5.5 hours, then a slow ramp down to 35% in the evening over 4.5 hours, then down to 0% over the next 1.5 hours.

Consistency shouldn’t be an issue, as this happened in 1 week after receiving the coral. In that time I didn’t do water changes or change my dosing schedule or feeding.

 

[ekandler]

Your numbers seem good. Are they stable?

So first off this happened over 1 week of having the coral after receiving it from a friends coral farm. Had it for a total of 3 weeks now and after the medicoral I can’t tell if it’s stopped or not, but it definitely isn’t better ha but I wouldn’t expect it to, I know coral is quick to die and slow to recover.

for consistency I’d say it is pretty good. the Trident/DOS combo keeps the alk/calc as stable as possible. Mag is almost always 1380-1420ppm. Hard to say about my nutrients because I only test those once a week but they are pretty consistent from my testing week to week.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I don’t usually do any sort of coral food, like reef roids, but I do feed LRS reef frenzy daily which I always thought would be enough for the corals and fish, since it has a lot of food of various sizes. Would you recommend feeding something else specifically for corals? I thought my nutrient levels were adequate, I got the frag from a friend that had lower levels than mine but I didn’t think mine were too high.

The lighting shouldn’t be too high, my lights are XR30 blues and only at 40% during their peak for 5.5 hours, then a slow ramp down to 35% in the evening over 4.5 hours, then down to 0% over the next 1.5 hours.

Consistency shouldn’t be an issue, as this happened in 1 week after receiving the coral. In that time I didn’t do water changes or change my dosing schedule or feeding.

Acclimation mode may be a good start for lighting. As for feeding,. . . Their main source of food is the symbiosis it has with zooxanthellae algae. They therefore dont require a feeding regimen or diet and will suffice from scraps/particles produced when feeding fish.

 

[MaxTremors]

I don’t usually do any sort of coral food, like reef roids, but I do feed LRS reef frenzy daily which I always thought would be enough for the corals and fish, since it has a lot of food of various sizes. Would you recommend feeding something else specifically for corals? I thought my nutrient levels were adequate, I got the frag from a friend that had lower levels than mine but I didn’t think mine were too high.

The lighting shouldn’t be too high, my lights are XR30 blues and only at 40% during their peak for 5.5 hours, then a slow ramp down to 35% in the evening over 4.5 hours, then down to 0% over the next 1.5 hours.

Consistency shouldn’t be an issue, as this happened in 1 week after receiving the coral. In that time I didn’t do water changes or change my dosing schedule or feeding.

I don’t think that this would necessarily be the cause of your problem, but your lighting schedule is weird. Why is there no ramp up in the morning (or the start of your photoperiod)? Do you just start at full intensity. Again, this shouldn’t be a problem, we ran reefs for years with lights that had no dimming capabilities, but I do think that ramping up and down is beneficial. Which is why I’m wondering why you don’t ramp up and only ramp down?

 

[ekandler]

Acclimation mode may be a good start for lighting. As for feeding,. . . Their main source of food is the symbiosis it has with zooxanthellae algae. They therefore dont require a feeding regimen or diet and will suffice from scraps/particles produced when feeding fish.

Yeah I’m happy to do an acclimation, but I’m worried it’s something other than that. Last time I PAR tested my lighting in that area was around 200 PAR so definitely nothing out of the ordinary for SPS coral.

 

[ekandler]

I don’t think that this would necessarily be the cause of your problem, but your lighting schedule is weird. Why is there no ramp up in the morning (or the start of your photoperiod)? Do you just start at full intensity. Again, this shouldn’t be a problem, we ran reefs for years with lights that had no dimming capabilities, but I do think that ramping up and down is beneficial. Which is why I’m wondering why you don’t ramp up and only ramp down?

Ha sorry, I do ramp up. I was just focusing on the peak hours in terms of that being what would cause bleaching. My schedule is ramp up 9-10:30 to 40%, then peak until 4, then ramp down 40%-30% until 8:30, then down to 0% from 8:30-10. Honestly I know it’s not the best lighting schedule, but I am home a lot now (thanks COVID) so I want my lights on a lot but don’t want it running at peak for 12 hours. I’ve tried running 40% for 5 hours then dropping down to something much lower, like 25%, because my only goal in the evening is to see the corals but after doing that my corals will close up.

 

[Pistondog]

Unless you have a specific reason, pest etc, why dip as it stresses coral?
Don't give up on him, lower light is better for new corals..

 

[ekandler]

Unless you have a specific reason, pest etc, why dip as it stresses coral?
Don't give up on him, lower light is better for new corals..

When I noticed this first happening after a week of having it I posted this for the first time on R2R and the recommendation was to move it to lower light and dip in an iodine based medication, so I tried the medicoral and moved it under some shaded rock. I moved it back into the light after a week of being in the shade after dipping it in iodine to see if it would bounce back.

 

[Pistondog]

When I noticed this first happening after a week of having it I posted this for the first time on R2R and the recommendation was to move it to lower light and dip in an iodine based medication, so I tried the medicoral and moved it under some shaded rock. I moved it back into the light after a week of being in the shade after dipping it in iodine to see if it would bounce back.

I don't think it's your issue, but new corals always go in this for a few days, to make sure no one bothers them.


I expect some browning on sps before going into higher light

 

[ekandler]

I don't think it's your issue, but new corals always go in this for a few days, to make sure no one bothers them.


I expect some browning on sps before going into higher light

So what is your SPS acclimation process? Put the coral in that or a frag rack low on the glass for a certain amount of time before moving it up to the desired height?

 

[Zeal]

Place at the sandbed for 2 weeks.

 

[ekandler]

Place at the sandbed for 2 weeks.

So looking at the rest of my information do you think poor acclimation is the issue?

 

[Pistondog]

So what is your SPS acclimation process? Put the coral in that or a frag rack low on the glass for a certain amount of time before moving it up to the desired height?

Put bag in tank to temperature acclimate. Then Drip acclimate for 2 hours. Then place in frag rack in guppy tank, which is at the end of 48 inch tank, near the surface. The guppy tank, up high has light around 75 par, and low flow.
They'll stay there at least 3 to 7 days, until I have time to try at preferred tank location.

 

[ekandler]

Put bag in tank to temperature acclimate. Then Drip acclimate for 2 hours. Then place in frag rack in guppy tank, which is at the end of 48 inch tank, near the surface. The guppy tank, up high has light around 75 par, and low flow.
They'll stay there at least 3 to 7 days, until I have time to try at preferred tank location.

Okay, I’ll give this a try on my next SPS order. I’ll update you if I still have issues after that. Thanks!

 

[Pistondog]

Okay, I’ll give this a try on my next SPS order. I’ll update you if I still have issues after that. Thanks!

Frag racks


Flexible placement

 

[Zeal]

So looking at the rest of my information do you think poor acclimation is the issue?

Yes. I have ALOT of montipora and not all like high light. some like low light.

Start them low then slowly bring them up.

Trust me. Bring them down

 

[ekandler]

Yes. I have ALOT of montipora and not all like high light. some like low light.

Start them low then slowly bring them up.

Trust me. Bring them down

That’s unfortunate. I really wanted something that could go on top of my rocks in higher light because I have LPS dominating my lower rock areas. I wanted to start with easier SPS before going into acros and I can’t keep montis alive ha I guess I can just lower the light intensity though.