Mega controller The "Nautlilus"

buck50bmg · Mar 19, 2009

Well Im putting my job to work for me, even more. I am going to use a Allen Bradley PLC as my new tank controller and monitor.

I posted this on the main site, but want to put it here on the PMAS section to generate some traffic.

So, first off. This is not for the average joe, but it can be learned. The power of a PLC is perfect for tank control and monitoring.

Second, its not going to save you money. Most stuff can be found on Ebay, but its still pricey. Remember this stuff is sold to factories and large bussiness.

Third, its going to have a larger footprint than a boxed controller.

Fourth, the control and options avaliable will make the the first three issues seem small.

This can be a canned controller, but someone has to program it first.

rarelyseriousb · Mar 19, 2009

Following along. I may be able to get these in time. Im in hvac

miatawnt2b · Mar 19, 2009

Buck,
I am realy looking forward to your documentation in this. I love electronics and soldering crap together, but I never enjoyed the programing. Good luck with the project!
-J

buck50bmg · Mar 20, 2009

Thanks.

Well so far, I have 2 PLC I just got off Ebay. They are the baby versions of the final controller, but this will keep me busy, as I will have a processor to up load to and test my code for the most part. Got it for $60.

Here is a pic that I got off a website, that shows the full controller will look like.

Paul_N · Mar 20, 2009

I'm along for the ride. I'm definitely interested......:smile:

Is there a specific model number you are using for the AB PLC?

buck50bmg · Mar 20, 2009

Paul

The combonations are endless. Which is good and bad. Allen-Bradley's website helps alot.

There are several ways to go, if using AB PLC. There are only 2 types that are really cost effective for us.

The older PLC-5
http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/plcsystem/controller.html

And the somewhat older SLC500
http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/slcsystem/controllers.html

The newer Control Logic 5000 is way out of our price range. The processor alone is around 5k. This is what I use at work, a complete system for a furnace can go upwards of 150k. So the older 500 series is the way to go. The PLC-5 is big and somewhat too old.

Programing is done via ladder logic. Its not hard to grasp, but the steps to get there are the issue.

The SLC500 5/05 processor is what Im planning on using, it has a ethernet port, which make it easy to program, since I dont have to be right next to the plc. But this costs money. A used processor will set you back $800.00 at least. There are cheaper processors but they need to be programmed localy.

There are cheaper PLC on www.automationdirect.com I am used to AB so Im going to stick with that.

I guess what it comes down to is more money and more time, but the amount you can do are limitless and you can trust it and expand it as big as you wish.

The big issue for them all, is displaying the values. I found a touch screen at www.redlion.net that will take the data from the PLC and with free software you can program the touch screen to display graphics to show your data and control your tank, best part is, it has a webserver built in that acts just like you are in front of the actual display.It also has a datalogger with a removable CF card and email alarms. Bad part is the money..... 1K....and thats cheap!

This project is going to take me over a year before Im ready to go live with it, so its not going to hurt me too much.

Paul_N · Mar 20, 2009

Thanks, that's the info I was looking for. There are used touch screens on ebay for $400. Not sure if it would work or not: http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Bradley-P...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

*edit Would hooking it up to a laptop be an option for display? I have an older IBM thinkpad that I was saving for use with an aquarium controller.

Paul_N · Mar 20, 2009

I was just thinking since we're in no hurry, just wait till one of the big 3 automakers goes under and they have a fire sale in the factories. We might be able to get everything you want for pennies on the dollar.....:bigsmile:

buck50bmg · Mar 20, 2009

Yea baby!!!

I think there are ways to use Excel as a HMI. To save money on a ethernet processor you could go RS232 from the processor to your laptop, then serve up the pages or do remote desktop connection to view the excel file....

Viva'sReef · Mar 20, 2009

Paul_PSU said:
I was just thinking since we're in no hurry, just wait till one of the big 3 automakers goes under and they have a fire sale in the factories. We might be able to get everything you want for pennies on the dollar.....:bigsmile:

Come on now....a lot of us on this board are from Michigan and this is kind of a touchy subject :misdoubt:

Paul_N · Mar 20, 2009

Viva'sReef said:
Come on now....a lot of us on this board are from Michigan and this is kind of a touchy subject :misdoubt:

Sorry, couldn't resist. As you can see, I'm not the sensitive or pc type..:xd:

cloakerpoked · Mar 20, 2009

Not like Obama's going to let them go under anyway. They're getting lumped into the "too big to fail" AIG business model where even AFTER the government owns them, they continue to waste money in a way that none of us can even imagine. Just one more step toward communism....

buck50bmg · Mar 20, 2009

cloakerpoked said:
Not like Obama's going to let them go under anyway. They're getting lumped into the "too big to fail" AIG business model where even AFTER the government owns them, they continue to waste money in a way that none of us can even imagine. Just one more step toward communism....

Im still a little gun shy from RC to properly comment.... but I will say that I like the way you think....just wish more americans thought the same and used their "noddle" some more. People have to STOP trusting the government, heck George Washington hated the government he was a president for....... Its not about republicans vs democrats....its about the People vs our goverment and keeping it in check (2nd amendment)

Ok Im off my rant.....sorry......please dont ban me........:crossedlips:

miatawnt2b · Mar 20, 2009

buck50bmg said:
Im still a little gun shy from RC to properly comment.... but I will say that I like the way you think....just wish more americans thought the same and used their "noddle" some more. People have to STOP trusting the government, heck George Washington hated the government he was a president for....... Its not about republicans vs democrats....its about the People vs our goverment and keeping it in check (2nd amendment)

Ok Im off my rant.....sorry......please dont ban me........:crossedlips:

I'll give that a +1
-J

cloakerpoked · Mar 20, 2009

Your first amendment rights are guaranteed by the 2nd amendment.

Now back to your OP, what is your approximate cost on this controller once its operational. Would it be cost efficient when compared to an ACIII or is it more that it can control a lot more options, and would be a larger, more expensive upgrade to the ACIII?

buck50bmg · Mar 22, 2009

No this would not be efficient as or as cheap as a Neptune controller. But the options and timing and control options are endless. I just got a 1747-L40L in from ebay to fool with, got it for 12 bucks, but it doesnt have a real time clock so its probably going to be used for Christmas light control with the input of a external timer. If using SLC 500 series, look at the 03, 04 and 05 processor.

buck50bmg · May 4, 2009

Ok, time I did an update.... Ive been in Italy and now Im going back today!!!

Well I have the panel, got it from a local panel builder, it was configured for a washdown line. So what you see will be different when I have time to start wiring it.

My code will include all of the stuff the other do and then some....

- Timers to warn when close to the end of the metal halides life.
- Average temp from 4 probes= better
- A canopy that I can lower and raise for maintenance with a VFD and motor connected to the PLC, also will use it to raise and lower it through out the day to simulate the suns intensisty.
- A emergency power mode that will automatically sence when normal power is lost, and start the backup generator, also will be able to budget the power. PLC is on a 1000va UPS.
- A softstart for all devices (timed sequence) focus on lighting.
- Real PID loops for the heaters.
- Power monitoring of input power.
- Data logging 8gb worth.
- Email and text alarms.
- Much more....