Made a little mistake

[simplicity]

I got the wrong aquarium setup coming in. Let me explain. I was going back and forth between a saltwater setup or freshwater w/ aquascape. I settled on freshwater and ordered a Waterbox 4820 with a stand. This one doesn’t have an overflow installed, it’s just all glass.

Cost of startup kept me away from reef setups, but I stumbled upon a few videos with guys who run sumpless reefs successfully. This got me thinking that maybe I could convert this freshwater tank into a saltwater one.

I prefer to not have to drill holes in the tank for an overflow, and some of the HOB stuff I’ve seen is either too bulky or prone to problems. I figure that I will need the following for filtration:

pre-canister filter
Canister filter with heater built in.
UV sterilizer
Algae scrubber or reactor.
Lilly intake thing for surface skimming?

I’m hoping that this setup will allow me to grow a few corals. My issue, though, is that having so many of these units sequentially could cause issues. One is flow rate. I’ve read that UV sterilizers operate best at flow rates of less than 200 GPH, and algae scrubbers may be the same, I don’t know. I guess I could have a separate pump for the UV algae scrubber/Refugium with the flow rate set lower than the canister filter. But that would mean 4 tubes going into the aquarium instead of 2.

I’m just a little overwhelmed with the complexity of this system in regards to what I should buy and how it should be organized/installed. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated… thanks

 

[simplicity]

Oh, and as my name suggests, I value simplicity. I realize I can’t automate a lot of things in this system because of not using a sump, but I’d like the system to be as self-sustaining as possible. This, for me, means: no more than 1 water change per month, not having to mess with the filters every other day (once a week max), etc. I’ll have to manually dose, I’m so hopefully this isn’t too complicated. The tank is 72 gallons. I hope I don’t sound like a lazy bum, but just want to do this as efficiently as possible

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

its very possible and easy to have a beautiful reef tank without a sump, the only one difference is that all the equipment is visible on top of the tank. A sump just hides the equipment, thats all, its not a guarantee of reef success.

I have 3 tanks with no sumps, 2 of the tank run on powerheads and rocks alone, these tanks hold soft corals. My main tank is a mixed reef with lps and sps, so it has a protein skimmer, I've also got a media reactor for gfo.

I advise against a canister, it would need to be cleaned very often for use on a reef tank, and its a huge chore to clean that every week, and not needed. If you really want some mechanical filtration, I suggest a hob filter, its a lot easier to clean, easier to run carbon or phosguard or whatever you want.

IME, a tank, rocks, and a powerhead are all thats needed to run a nice salt tank (but I have many years experience), I say, get all the other machines later when you know you need them (I've never used a uv sterilizer or algae scrubber). They are just tools, you cant know which tool you will need later on

 

[simplicity]

its very possible and easy to have a beautiful reef tank without a sump, the only one difference is that all the equipment is visible on top of the tank. A sump just hides the equipment, thats all, its not a guarantee of reef success.

I have 3 tanks with no sumps, 2 of the tank run on powerheads and rocks alone, these tanks hold soft corals. My main tank is a mixed reef with lps and sps, so it has a protein skimmer, I've also got a media reactor for gfo.

I advise against a canister, it would need to be cleaned very often for use on a reef tank, and its a huge chore to clean that every week, and not needed. If you really want some mechanical filtration, I suggest a hob filter, its a lot easier to clean, easier to run carbon or phosguard or whatever you want.

IME, a tank, rocks, and a powerhead are all thats needed to run a nice salt tank (but I have many years experience), I say, get all the other machines later when you know you need them (I've never used a uv sterilizer or algae scrubber). They are just tools, you cant know which tool you will need later on

Thanks for the reply. See, that’s the thing - I don’t want to hang anything on the back other than the water tubes going in and out. I got a rimless tank so I want to keep it looking clean. If you search on YouTube “sumpless reef” you will see a bunch of guys who all seem to use a canister - but - they are also using a pre filter box with foam to catch all the dirt first. They’re saying the canister is more like a reactor while the first filter that is easy to access and clean serves as the main mechanical filtration. If I have to hang protein skimmers/etc. on the back, then it’s not worth it for me since this tank is going to be on display in the center of my house. I want to keep clean.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I got the wrong aquarium setup coming in. Let me explain. I was going back and forth between a saltwater setup or freshwater w/ aquascape. I settled on freshwater and ordered a Waterbox 4820 with a stand. This one doesn’t have an overflow installed, it’s just all glass.

Cost of startup kept me away from reef setups, but I stumbled upon a few videos with guys who run sumpless reefs successfully. This got me thinking that maybe I could convert this freshwater tank into a saltwater one.

I prefer to not have to drill holes in the tank for an overflow, and some of the HOB stuff I’ve seen is either too bulky or prone to problems. I figure that I will need the following for filtration:

pre-canister filter
Canister filter with heater built in.
UV sterilizer
Algae scrubber or reactor.
Lilly intake thing for surface skimming?

I’m hoping that this setup will allow me to grow a few corals. My issue, though, is that having so many of these units sequentially could cause issues. One is flow rate. I’ve read that UV sterilizers operate best at flow rates of less than 200 GPH, and algae scrubbers may be the same, I don’t know. I guess I could have a separate pump for the UV algae scrubber/Refugium with the flow rate set lower than the canister filter. But that would mean 4 tubes going into the aquarium instead of 2.

I’m just a little overwhelmed with the complexity of this system in regards to what I should buy and how it should be organized/installed. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated… thanks

While a non-reef tank offers some disadvantages, it can still be done with addition of hang on back refugium or used CPR Backpack filter and a hang on skimmer such as Ice Cap K1-100 which is on a super sale at CoralVue.com right now

 

[Mhamilton0911]

In the past I used a canister filter and hated it. Definitely was a pain to clean and zero surface skimming. I switched over to an all in one type filter/sump and this provides the surface skimming and easy access to sponges for frequent cleaning.

But I did pick up a weird hexagon 7g tank that was plain, no filter system. I designed a 'overflow box' that basically just hides the canister filter intake but the weir teeth provides the surface skimming action and there's room for sponges. So my canister will hold just live rock for bio filter and only sponges up top at the overflow box. Still looks like a clean setup, not too much in the tank and still functions the way I want it too. All diy. Cut the acrylic and siliconed in.

 

[Rmckoy]

If you’re planning on running a canister style it’s going to be hard to have simplicity or little maintenance .
they will require frequent and thorough cleaning

 

[MoshJosh]

As long as you are OK with equipment visible in the tank you are fine. I guess you could try and run a bunch of that stuff in line with the canister. . . kind of sounds like a nightmare to me, but I'm sure it's possible. . . anything is possible.

All that said I am partial to a sump myself and have definitely come around to the idea of drilling tanks. . . I can understand not wanting to drill it yourself, but you could always ask a local fish store, some of them will drill stuff for you.

Honestly, I think a sump + refugium would be a more simplistic solution than trying to run all that equipment in-line or in the display.

 

[d2mini]

Do you have any good LFS in your area? Drilling a tank seems daunting, but its pretty easy for someone with experience. There may be someone in your area that could drill the tank either on the bottom for a full height overflow, or across the back, maybe do a Ghost overflow. I would look into this first before exploring other option. It can be done the other way but you'll be happier long term this way. If you do drill, research Bean Animal Fail Safe Plumbing.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

My heavily stocked 47 gallon rimless mixed reef runs with just a HOB tidal 75 from seachem. I currently have a UV sterilizer on it as well, since I was having a dinoflagellate issue, but that is pretty much gone and I'll be removing the UV again soon.

 

[fishface NJ]

I ran a canister on my 90g for many years and also a hob filter on a 40 g. They also had their own hbo skimmer. It looks messy... not clean at all. Sorry....

Are you able to change the order, or is the tank you ordered able to drill it for an overflow?

 

[simplicity]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and opinions. I will contact my local fish shops tomorrow and see what they can do. They would have to come out to my house and drill, which I’m not sure they would be willing to do. The tank is already shipped, so can’t change anything now. The marine version of this tank is about $1000 more expensive but comes with an overflow/sump/plumbing. If I can have an overflow installed and get a sump and the plumbing for less than the cost of the marine version of this tank, that will be good.

I’m not gonna lie, I’m still tempted to try the no sump or skimmer alternative. I hear good things about the Oase Biomaster since it has a built in pre filter that can be easily removed and cleaned, which keeps the main filter clean for a lot longer. Even thought of having the algae scrubber or UV on another pump so I can use them as needed.

The Lilly glass connectors that have the floating surface skimmer on the filter inlet seem to do a good job of skimming the surface of the water from what I’ve heard.

it’s weird because I have watched videos of guys who don’t even test their water or supplement anything and their tank looks amazing. I was thinking that if I paint the back wall of the tank black, it doesn’t matter how much stuff I have hanging off the back since it will be mostly hidden except for some tubes going over the edge. have any of you painted the back walls and have suggestions on that?

The idea of having a dry cabinet with everything connected via a smart plug and no dirty sump to deal with is really attractive. I could turn on the UV or other reactors from my phone.

 

[MERKEY]

I know you really want to use a canister amd I did for a couple years, but in the long run for simplicity I would look at ghost or shadow overflows.

Simple to install and you don't have everything hanging on your rimless tank.

And sumps don't have to be huge they can be a reactor and a uv in a small 10g.

 

[anthonygf]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and opinions. I will contact my local fish shops tomorrow and see what they can do. They would have to come out to my house and drill, which I’m not sure they would be willing to do. The tank is already shipped, so can’t change anything now. The marine version of this tank is about $1000 more expensive but comes with an overflow/sump/plumbing. If I can have an overflow installed and get a sump and the plumbing for less than the cost of the marine version of this tank, that will be good.

I’m not gonna lie, I’m still tempted to try the no sump or skimmer alternative. I hear good things about the Oase Biomaster since it has a built in pre filter that can be easily removed and cleaned, which keeps the main filter clean for a lot longer. Even thought of having the algae scrubber or UV on another pump so I can use them as needed.

The Lilly glass connectors that have the floating surface skimmer on the filter inlet seem to do a good job of skimming the surface of the water from what I’ve heard.

it’s weird because I have watched videos of guys who don’t even test their water or supplement anything and their tank looks amazing. I was thinking that if I paint the back wall of the tank black, it doesn’t matter how much stuff I have hanging off the back since it will be mostly hidden except for some tubes going over the edge. have any of you painted the back walls and have suggestions on that?

The idea of having a dry cabinet with everything connected via a smart plug and no dirty sump to deal with is really attractive. I could turn on the UV or other reactors from my phone.

I run the Oase Biomaster on my 75 gallon fresh water and I love it. So easy to service the prefilters and they have many different kinds of prefilters, some with built in carbon infused into the foam. I replace the prefilters once a week (swap them out with clean ones then clean the dirty ones at your convenience) because I have an Oscar that is only 8 inches at this time. One unit also has a built in heater. The main trays have foam filters but you would be better off using rock rubble or any bio media in place of the foam and every few months lightly rinse the bio media in old tank water. Can't go wrong with the Oase.

 

[simplicity]

Yes, this is what the guys who use this say - to remove the foam from the main filter and just replace it with bio media. They say they go a month or longer without having to service the main filter. Same deal you're describing with replacing the foam filters once a week.. wonder if I could go a month without replacing that? I sometimes go overseas to visit family for 3-4 weeks at a time.
.....

Between a canister filter and a sump/socks/skimmer, I wonder which one would need serviced more often? Another thing I heard was that if you're going to use a sump on a marine setup to get a much bigger canister than you would for a similar sized freshwater tank. I'm thinking of going for the Biomaster 600 for this 72 gallon if I go this route.


1. Lily pipe input with surface skimmer > Biomaster 600 > Aquaviolet UV sterilizer (one that can handle a higher flow rate) > back into tank
2. intake tube > phytotank chaeto reactor > pump > bank into tank
3. ATO input tube

Yeah, a lot of tubes on the back, but still better than hanging something on the back of it and it takes up less space than anything inside, too.

What do you guys think if I had to go this route? I'm keeping my options open until I talk to the fish store and I'll check out the ghost/shadow overflows. thanks everyone

 

[anthonygf]

Yes, this is what the guys who use this say - to remove the foam from the main filter and just replace it with bio media. They say they go a month or longer without having to service the main filter. Same deal you're describing with replacing the foam filters once a week.. wonder if I could go a month without replacing that? I sometimes go overseas to visit family for 3-4 weeks at a time.
.....

Between a canister filter and a sump/socks/skimmer, I wonder which one would need serviced more often? Another thing I heard was that if you're going to use a sump on a marine setup to get a much bigger canister than you would for a similar sized freshwater tank. I'm thinking of going for the Biomaster 600 for this 72 gallon if I go this route.


1. Lily pipe input with surface skimmer > Biomaster 600 > Aquaviolet UV sterilizer (one that can handle a higher flow rate) > back into tank
2. intake tube > phytotank chaeto reactor > pump > bank into tank
3. ATO input tube

Yeah, a lot of tubes on the back, but still better than hanging something on the back of it and it takes up less space than anything inside, too.

What do you guys think if I had to go this route? I'm keeping my options open until I talk to the fish store and I'll check out the ghost/shadow overflows. thanks everyone

I really don't know about all the other stuff, like the UV light, I just have a bulb in the sump next to the heater and covered with something so you don't expose your eyes to the UV. The Biomaster you can get the coarse sponge for the per filter that will go longer, like maybe 2-3 weeks before needing to change than the finer ones. But remember this, when the prefilter starts collecting excess food and other stuff it will decompose and add to your nitrates and phosphates and will go up.

 

[simplicity]

Man I even thought of something else. If the flow of the canister is too high for the chaeto reactor, I could just install a Y valve after the UV sterilizer and have two outputs, one going directly back in the tank, and the other going to the chaeto. Of course it would have a shut off valve so I could stop using the chaeto. This would eliminate the inlet tube for the chaeto so just 4 tubes this way.

 

[anthonygf]

Man I even thought of something else. If the flow of the canister is too high for the chaeto reactor, I could just install a Y valve after the UV sterilizer and have two outputs, one going directly back in the tank, and the other going to the chaeto. Of course it would have a shut off valve so I could stop using the chaeto. This would eliminate the inlet tube for the chaeto so just 4 tubes this way.

That is a good idea.

 

[simplicity]

Do you think a pre filter box with just foam outside of the Base would help? I've seen guys do this. I just thought the Biomaster would make it less complicated with the inbuilt pre filter. Maybe a bigger one before it would work even better.

 

[anthonygf]

Do you think a pre filter box with just foam outside of the Base would help? I've seen guys do this. I just thought the Biomaster would make it less complicated with the inbuilt pre filter. Maybe a bigger one before it would work even better.

I don't know about that but I think you are starting to complicate things.