Low PH will not stabilize

[bkss709]

I have been fighting Low PH it has been stable at 7.9 but i can not get it to 8.3 and this has been going on for 2 weeks now. I have tried Kalk Dripping and adding PH buffer and now i put the Air line from the Skimmer through the wall of the basement to the outside to suck in fresh air but no change there so i am out of idea's i need help.

Tank Parameters

Calcium 480
Mag 1350
KH 10
PH 7.9

 

[returnofsid]

Why not leave it at 7.9? Nothing wrong with that level.

 

[bkss709]

Why not leave it at 7.9? Nothing wrong with that level.

Ever scents it has dropped to 7.9 my Acans are not puffing up at all and are not happy at all and this started when the PH dropped down to this level.

 

[RBursek]

What are you testing your PH with? with all you did to increase it it maybe a test error, or if dosing Alk use baked baking soda, will raise Alk and PH, regular baking soda raises Alk but drops PH.

 

[beaslbob]

Try a refugium with macro algaes. pH will rise as carbon dioxide is removed from the system. So that the tank becomes a net consumer of carbon dioxide each 24 hour period.

my .02

 

[bkss709]

What are you testing your PH with? with all you did to increase it it maybe a test error, or if dosing Alk use baked baking soda, will raise Alk and PH, regular baking soda raises Alk but drops PH.

I am doing my test with PH meter and has been Calibrated and it checked out but still might be a bad PH Pen to. And for what i am using to raise PH Seachem PH Buffer . I even tried Dripping Kalk and no change so then i tried Put my Protien skimmer air line out side to pull in fresh air and no change and that is all i have tried at this point.

 

[wicked demon]

+1 beasle, also run the lighting on your fuge (if you have one) opposite the lighting in your display, for a longer photo period, and no PH drop at night. Also you can add some more arragonite to the sandbed, it buffers through osmosis and diffusion.

 

[bkss709]

Try a refugium with macro algaes. pH will rise as carbon dioxide is removed from the system. So that the tank becomes a net consumer of carbon dioxide each 24 hour period.

my .02

I don't no if that will work or not because i run a ultra Low Nutrient tank and i don't no if the macro algea will live or not what do you think.

 

[wicked demon]

the macro will be fine, it simply wont grow very fast, but as long as you keep light on it --it will live.

 

[bkss709]

+1 beasle, also run the lighting on your fuge (if you have one) opposite the lighting in your display, for a longer photo period, and no PH drop.

I dont have a Fuge i was thinking about that and might try that i have a extra frag tank here i can hook up.

 

[bkss709]

the macro will be fine, it simply wont grow very fast, but as long as you keep light on it --it will live.

Well i will have to get some from my buddy out of his Fuge and give that a try.

 

[beaslbob]

I don't no if that will work or not because i run a ultra Low Nutrient tank and i don't no if the macro algea will live or not what do you think.

I think with macro algaes you can have ultra low nutrients and high pH.

Of course you should measure pH just before lights out. If high then you have a very good indication the tank is a net consumer of carbon dioxide and producer of oxygen every 24 hours.

my .02

 

[RBursek]

Sure seems odd that A it changed all at once and B even doing all you are doing, it is still low, I would double check your PH monitor.

 

[bkss709]

Sure seems odd that A it changed all at once and B even doing all you are doing, it is still low, I would double check your PH monitor.

That is what i am going to do buy a new PH probe for it and see.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

I am having the same problems. I keep testing my pH and it is coming in at 7.8. My calcium levels are high...they start at 400ppm on saturdays and will usually go down to 460 or 450 over the course of the week. My alkalinity is also low, and it stays about 1.5 MEQ/L which is like 3.92 DKH I think. I would love to make these numbers go up to "appropriate" levels...but havent been having success with seachem reef builder or ph buffer. (Yes, the alkalinity goes up slightly after double dosing with reef builder, and both go up considerably after double dosing with ph buffer...but I dont want to do TOO much because Im a fan of stability, and the parameters always return to where they were before over the course of the week.) I have a 75 gallon tank with 80# of special reef grade aragonite. I also have two large colonies of grape calurpa. I have an acro, a milli, and other hard and sps corals that are growing really fast...but I would love to see how fast they would grow under "ideal" conditions. If anyone has any secrets, please let BOTH of us know!

 

[RBursek]

The "buffers" are not the best thing to use. Use baked baking soda to get Alk and PH up Also how can a Saturday reading of 400 on Ca go DOWN to 450-460 durring the week?

 

[beaslbob]

To me this is the bottom line.

1) if you use macro algaes or other plant life to get nitrates unmeasureable.

and

2) dose the diy 2 part to keep parameters in line. (as opposed to driping kalk which raises the pH).


You can ignore pH.


my .02

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

To me this is the bottom line.
1) if you use macro algaes or other plant life to get nitrates unmeasureable.
and
2) dose the diy 2 part to keep parameters in line. (as opposed to driping kalk which raises the pH).
You can ignore pH.
my .02

Not quite sure I understand you here?

The "buffers" are not the best thing to use. Use baked baking soda to get Alk and PH up Also how can a Saturday reading of 400 on Ca go DOWN to 450-460 durring the week?

Im sorry...I meant 360-350. Sorry about that. There is another post on here that says that baking soda will lower pH...how do you get the baking soda that raises both? "Baked" Baking soda?

 

[RBursek]

Recipe #1 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is normal to low. In practice, more reef aquarists end up choosing this recipe than Recipe #2. It will tend to raise pH due to its alkalinity part's elevated pH, as do most of the commercial two-part additives. The increase in pH depends on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity increases the pH by about 0.3 pH units immediately upon its addition (and even higher, locally, before it has a chance to mix throughout the aquarium).
If you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe is not the best choice. Otherwise, it is likely to be a good option. It is twice as concentrated as Recipe #2, because the baking process makes the baking soda more soluble.
Recipe #2 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is on the high side (above 8.3 or so). It will have a very small pH lowering effect when initially added. The pH drop achieved will depend on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity drops the pH by about 0.04 pH units immediately upon its addition.
f you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe may be the best choice. It is half as concentrated as Recipe #1 because the raw baking soda is less soluble because it's unbaked

Recipe #1

• • The Design of the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts
  • Residual Ions from the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts
  • Residue Remaining from Recipe #1 when using Recipe #1, Part 3A
  • Residue Remaining from Recipe #1 when using Recipe #1, Part 3B
• Summary
• Reference Links

Introduction
This two-part additive system is similar to the many commercial two-part additive systems. It allows aquarists to supplement calcium and alkalinity without greatly skewing the water's ionic balance (something that is claimed by many of the commercial products, but that is not independently verified). Equal addition of the two parts to a reef aquarium will provide calcium and alkalinity in approximately the same ratio used in calcification by corals and coralline algae.
One part is calcium chloride dissolved in water, and the other part is baking soda (either baked or not prior to use) dissolved in water. The balance between these two additives is very important, and the recipe is designed for aquarists to dose equal portions of the two parts every time they dose. An aquarium using such a balanced additive system is unlikely to undergo large short-term swings in calcium and alkalinity, as can happen if an aquarist using independent additives were to inadvertently overdose one or the other. This problem is surprisingly common, and using balanced calcium and alkalinity additive systems for most additions serves to eliminate that potential danger.
A "third" part of this additive system contains magnesium, sulfate, and chloride. It needs to be added only once in a while at a fixed rate relative to the other two parts. It cannot be readily combined with either of the other parts, based on the ingredients discussed here that are readily available to aquarists (commercial systems may have more chemicals to select from, such as sodium sulfate, allowing more flexibility). This third part is necessary to prevent magnesium depletion, and to prevent abnormal chloride and sulfate ratios in the aquarium.
The seven most abundant ions in seawater, in decreasing order of concentration, are chloride, sodium, sulfate, magnesium, calcium, potassium and bicarbonate. Using this new recipe will keep all of these ions in their appropriate ratios (detailed below).
Comparing the Two Primary Recipes
This article actually details two primary recipes. One uses raw baking soda, and the other uses baking soda that aquarists bake before use. The baking drives some of the carbon dioxide out of the baking soda, and raises its pH as well as its alkalinity. Be careful about substituting other brands for the Dowflake and the magnesium chloride sold by the Dead Sea Works company. A later section in this article details substitution issues.
Recipe #1 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is normal to low. In practice, more reef aquarists end up choosing this recipe than Recipe #2. It will tend to raise pH due to its alkalinity part's elevated pH, as do most of the commercial two-part additives. The increase in pH depends on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity increases the pH by about 0.3 pH units immediately upon its addition (and even higher, locally, before it has a chance to mix throughout the aquarium).
If you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe is not the best choice. Otherwise, it is likely to be a good option. It is twice as concentrated as Recipe #2, because the baking process makes the baking soda more soluble.
Recipe #2 is for use in reef aquaria whose pH is on the high side (above 8.3 or so). It will have a very small pH lowering effect when initially added. The pH drop achieved will depend on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity drops the pH by about 0.04 pH units immediately upon its addition.
If you are using limewater (kalkwasser) and the aquarium is at pH 8.4 or above, this recipe may be the best choice. It is half as concentrated as Recipe #1 because the raw baking soda is less soluble because it's unbaked.
Recipe #1

Recipe #1, Part 2: The Alkalinity Part
Spread baking soda (594 grams or about 2 ¼ cups) on a baking tray and heat in an ordinary oven at 300°F for one hour to drive off water and carbon dioxide. Overheating is not a problem, either with higher temperatures or longer times. Dissolve the residual solid in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). I prefer to use baked baking soda rather than washing soda in this recipe as baking soda from a grocery store is always food grade, while washing soda may not have the same purity requirements. Arm & Hammer brand is a fine choice. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient

 

[RBursek]

Sorry, I could not edit out the long center part, but at the bottom is the recipe for baked baking soda, which is normal baking soda, baked at 300* for about 2 hours spread out on a cookie sheet.