Live Phyto vs Dinos

[HumbleAsianReefer]

Hello guys. Dinos came back in my 15g nano tank. This time, it’s worst. I’ve been doing a 24hours black out & slowly raising my nutrient level for now. N i’m wondering if dosing live phyto will help battling it. Is it a tested & proven methods? If so, anyone here can help me explain. Thanks in advance

pH: 8.1
Salinity: 34ppt
Temp: 78f
dKh: 8.0
Ca: 460
Mg: 1400
No3: 0 (both salifert & aquaforest test kit)
Po4: 0 (both salifert & aquaforest test kit)

Live stock/ Corals
-a pair of clown
-1 sixline wrasse
-1 mandarin dragonet
-1 skunk shrimp
-1 marble shrimp
-1 sand sifting starfish
-1 turbo snail
-1 rainbow BTA
-crocea clam
-gsp on backwall
-colony of mushroom
-kenya tree
-cabbage leather
-sinularia
-anthelia
-clove polyp
-devil’s hand
-trachyphyllia

 

[Spare time]

Feed way more and get nitrate and phosphate up.

 

[Spare time]

If you want, you can try my dino method. They go away every time but no clue if it actually does anything. I use some sort of PNS bacteria (microbe lift special blend is what I used last time), Dr Tim's eco balance, and some heterotrophic bacteria. I also have a cheap UV but I turned it off this time since it wasn't helping. I also don't think the heterotrophic bacteria is very helpful in my tank since I don't run a skimmer. This last time it went away soon after the eco balance. I also heavily dosed silica but that's because I have lots of sponges and I moved everything into a new tank. Again this is just something I've done and no clue if it works. It could simply have been that the sand was new and lacked the zooplankton population to keep the dinos in check until they caught up

 

[BetterJake]

Blackouts are only a cosmetic temporary fix, a blackout can actually just cause the Dino to encyst and come back once conditions are favorable. This will only cause additional stress to corals as well.

1. Get N and P above 0! Aim for 0.1 P and 10 N. Dose nutrients directly if needed.. (NeoNitro + NeoPhos)

2. Get a microscope and ID the type of Dinos you have. As some will require a UV and others silicate dosing to cause a diatom bloom to outcompete the Dinos. More on this later...

Please read the attached "dealing with Dinos" doc. And I highly recommend joining this support group on Facebook. Those are the experts!

But dosing phyto + bacteria (Microbacter7) can also aid in the battle as well

 

[MrGisonni]

I am beginning to think that this idea of low nutrients is a bit of a wives tale. Sure they might appear when nutrients bottom out, but in my classroom reef they are relentless even with N03 at 40 and phosphates at .2

 

[The_Paradox]

I am beginning to think that this idea of low nutrients is a bit of a wives tale. Sure they might appear when nutrients bottom out, but in my classroom reef they are relentless even with N03 at 40 and phosphates at .2

It’s probably a correlation, not causation. Most of my tanks are around 20ppb phosphorus with >4ppm nitrate and I only see dinos every few years.

 

[jda]

Dinos take over where there is real estate for them to occupy. Period. Some kinds can be growth limited (poisoned) with higher waste products and some can thrive still. Not all dinos are the same, which is an important nuance. Tanks with things already living on the rocks and with bacteria and fauna in the sand are not as welcoming to newcomers looking to settle. I have 0.10 no3 and 1-3 ppb of po4 and I have no dinos save for a small patch every year or so that goes away as quickly as it came.

Suck it out. Get some diverse things into your ecosystem that can spread - real live rock is good for this. It sucks, but getting all surfaces covered is only long-term solution, IMO.

 

[BetterJake]

I am beginning to think that this idea of low nutrients is a bit of a wives tale. Sure they might appear when nutrients bottom out, but in my classroom reef they are relentless even with N03 at 40 and phosphates at .2

The overwhelming amount of the hundreds of tanks posted in the Dinos support group had P/N bottomed out at 0.

There will always be scenarios outside the norm where this is not the case. The thing is, it “can” cause dinos but like everything else in this hobby, there is some nuance to it. We all see the end result when dinos fill the role left open by beneficial bacteria on the sand bed. Once nutrient levels rise, bacteria will typically bloom and in many cases, dinos will disappear. So it might not actually be the "low nitrates/phosphates" per-se that is causing dinos but an environment that’s less conducive to bacterial growth which is allowing the dinos to out-compete bacteria for that space.

Regardless, it's far from a wives tale.

 

[jda]

To understand what might keep dinos at bay, you have to understand a few things. First, they are prevalent in new tanks. Most new reefers think that tanks are cycled (as in done) when they can add fish and do not understand that they cycle is ongoing forever, which is why it is a short name for cyclical. In the beginning, the tank needs bacteria that comes from a bottle to process fish waste This stuff does not really settle much into the rocks and sand and is eventually taken over by film and matting bacteria, which are different types. Dinos cannot grow on film and matting bacteria all that well. These bacteria are slimy and also often times come from fish guts. Since tanks have been started with dry rock and bottled bacteria, these matting and film bacteria are harder to get established than if they were added before the dinos with live rock or fish gut waste. Other things like coralline, matting or film algae, etc. also grow on surfaces and dinos cannot grow on them. The algae also come on live rock and also over time from frag plugs, rocks that corals come on, etc.

As the tank cycles, it needs to shift from Ammonia Oxidizing Bacteria (bottled stuff) to direct consumption of fish waste via film algae and bacteria. The AOB becomes less important and plays a role in the background after a while. In tanks started with sterile rock and sand without any introduction of film bacteria and algae they dinos can move into the neighborhood long before other things that can keep them out. Too many folks only focus on AOB and miss the boat with the maturing of the tank ecosystem.

Introduce and encourage the growth of the film and matting bacteria and algae and you will be all set.

 

[Mikeltee]

The only thing phyto does is feed pods. You need tisbe and/or apocylops seeded and you need a ton of them if you want them to do anything about dinos. For a 15g tank I'd add a 32oz bottle of tisbe from coralhubus.com and feed 15ml phyto twice daily to that tank. If you have a mandarin or a pod hungry Wrasse they will eat all the pods. Don't waste your time with tiggers.

Lol you got both. Your pods won't last a night...

 

[Jasongtr]

Off topic but 6 line in a 15g....

 

[HumbleAsianReefer]

Off topic but 6 line in a 15g....

Is it wrong to keep a 6line and a mandarin in a 15g if i daily dose live phyto & copepods every single day? They’re very healthy even before i transfer them to this 15g. Transfered from from my 10g nano, its been 2 years, still alive n well until today. If i’m doing it wrong, then give me a reason to not keep it in my tank, i’ll give up on them.

 

[Jasongtr]

Is it wrong to keep a 6line and a mandarin in a 15g if i daily dose live phyto & copepods every single day? They’re very healthy even before i transfer them to this 15g. Transfered from from my 10g nano, its been 2 years, still alive n well until today. If i’m doing it wrong, then give me a reason to not keep it in my tank, i’ll give up on them.

You only need to go online and search minimum tank size for any fish, just because they fit in the tank doesn't mean its right as using that logic why not put a yellow tang in there too