Large White Fluffy Spots on Tangs and Majestic Angel

[kboogie]

I lost my Naso Tang last week and it had some large white fluffy spots which I thought it was lymphocytosis because I've had issues in the past plus my nitrates spiked to over 100ppm as a result of rapid cheato die-off. I now notice the same spots on my Hippo tang who has been with me for two years. My Majestic Angelfish also have a spot on his forehead. I know it is not ich because the spots are too large, they are fluffy, and I've been slowly raising my salinity from 1.009 and I'm only at 1.010. March will mark a year of hypo. I used ChatGPT to help me diagnose and it said velvet but I'm not sure. I've attached some images and hope @Jay Hemdal sees this post because he has been a great asset to the community.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I lost my Naso Tang last week and it had some large white fluffy spots which I thought it was lymphocytosis because I've had issues in the past plus my nitrates spiked to over 100ppm as a result of rapid cheato die-off. I now notice the same spots on my Hippo tang who has been with me for two years. My Majestic Angelfish also have a spot on his forehead. I know it is not ich because the spots are too large, they are fluffy, and I've been slowly raising my salinity from 1.009 and I'm only at 1.010. March will mark a year of hypo. I used ChatGPT to help me diagnose and it said velvet but I'm not sure. I've attached some images and hope @Jay Hemdal sees this post because he has been a great asset to the community.

View attachment 3043089 View attachment 3043090 View attachment 3043091

Pics a little distant from fish but may be mucus plugs from previous parasite condition. I also see what looks like bacterial tufts. To address, first thing that I noticed was your statement about nitrate and water quality as Hepatus has a good case of HLLE and often associated with water quality and dietary in terms of low fats and vitamins.
For bacterial- also associated with water quality from reading s to something decaying or infection.
With the mucus plugs and likely cryptocaryon which is Marine Ich and a freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily but you utilized hypo salinity which disqualifies needs for FW dip. There's a chance you will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
If bacterial, Seachem Kanaplex can be used with coppersafe safely and again water quality will need to be monitored carefully. Jay is on vacation this week BUT there is a chance he may chime in as he has this week but its been early evenings

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think these are mucus plugs also. Fish produce those in response to some stress . I’ve never kept fish in low hypo for a year like that, perhaps that is contributing to the stress?
That said, Losing the naso means something else could be going on.
Velvet causes rapid breathing, hanging in water currents, not eating, and then rapid fish death after about 72 hours. You also won’t see spots like this. I don’t think this is velvet then.
Jay

 

[kboogie]

I think these are mucus plugs also. Fish produce those in response to some stress . I’ve never kept fish in low hypo for a year like that, perhaps that is contributing to the stress?
That said, Losing the naso means something else could be going on.
Velvet causes rapid breathing, hanging in water currents, not eating, and then rapid fish death after about 72 hours. You also won’t see spots like this. I don’t think this is velvet then.
Jay

Can you explain more about the mucus plugs? What are they and where are you seeing them? I'm trying to learn. I think you might be referring to the indentation in the Hippo Tangs head but that is just me guessing.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Can you explain more about the mucus plugs? What are they and where are you seeing them? I'm trying to learn. I think you might be referring to the indentation in the Hippo Tangs head but that is just me guessing.

No, the indication is more likely head and lateral line erosion (non fatal).
Fish have mucus cells in their skin. When stressed, the fish produces mucus that exudes out of them and forms large white plugs of mucus.
Jay

 

[kboogie]

No, the indication is more likely head and lateral line erosion (non fatal).
Fish have mucus cells in their skin. When stressed, the fish produces mucus that exudes out of them and forms large white plugs of mucus.
Jay

OK. Got it. So, the fish equivalent to pimples.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OK. Got it. So, the fish equivalent to pimples.

Sort of, but pimples have bacteria in them, and mucus plugs are mostly sterile.
Jay

 

[kboogie]

Thank you @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 for your help!

 

[kboogie]

Is it possible the low pH would cause mucus plugs? I tested my pH yesterday it was peaking around 7.8 throughout the day.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is it possible the low pH would cause mucus plugs? I tested my pH yesterday it was peaking around 7.8 throughout the day.

I've not seen that - many of my systems have a lower pH than that (7.6-ish) with no evidence of mucus plugs.

Jay

 

[kboogie]

I lost the Hippo Tang today. I can't figure out what happened. The plugs where seemed to cause him stress because he started to have heavy breathing. Very similar to what happened with my Naso (plugs, followed by heavy breathing). The other fish are all doing well. Even my Powder Blue Tang is perfect. Parameters look good (Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 10PPM, pH 7.9). I find it interesting that it was two of my three tangs had similar symptoms. I currently have a new blonde Naso in quarantine and I'm not putting him in until I figure out what is going on.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I lost the Hippo Tang today. I can't figure out what happened. The plugs where seemed to cause him stress because he started to have heavy breathing. Very similar to what happened with my Naso (plugs, followed by heavy breathing). The other fish are all doing well. Even my Powder Blue Tang is perfect. Parameters look good (Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 10PPM, pH 7.9). I find it interesting that it was two of my three tangs had similar symptoms. I currently have a new blonde Naso in quarantine and I'm not putting him in until I figure out what is going on.

Mucus plugs don't cause stress, they are caused BY stress. the trouble is, that stress can be a disease, a disease treatment, or a water quality issue.

Hypo does not control velvet, so that is still a possibility.

Jay

 

[kboogie]

T

Mucus plugs don't cause stress, they are caused BY stress. the trouble is, that stress can be a disease, a disease treatment, or a water quality issue.

Hypo does not control velvet, so that is still a possibility.

Jay

That makes sense. Is velvet a slow-progressing condition?

 

[Bucs20fan]

T

That makes sense. Is velvet a slow-progressing condition?

No, velvet is one of the fastest killers out there, usually by the time symptoms show, you've got 3 days before death.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

T

That makes sense. Is velvet a slow-progressing condition?

No, that's a possible conundrum in this case - velvet causes rapid breathing and then death in most/all fish within a few days.

Jay

 

[kboogie]

No, that's a possible conundrum in this case - velvet causes rapid breathing and then death in most/all fish within a few days.

Jay

I'll keep a close eye on everyone.

 

[kboogie]

@Jay Hemdal a new development. My Powder Blue Tang has developed similar raised fluffy spots on his face with what appear to be indentations. See pictures below, any thoughts? It looks like lymphocytosis but my water parameters have never been better now that I have a Sulfur Reactor and my nitrates are almost zero (single digits), pH 8.19 (freshly calibrated, nitrite 0, and ammonia 0. I am also experiencing either a bacteria bloom or fallout from alkalinity/calcium imbalance (I add 1 teaspoon of soda ash every other day to offset the alk depletion from the Sulfur Reactor). I am very concerned.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal a new development. My Powder Blue Tang has developed similar raised fluffy spots on his face with what appear to be indentations. See pictures below, any thoughts? It looks like lymphocytosis but my water parameters have never been better now that I have a Sulfur Reactor and my nitrates are almost zero (single digits), pH 8.19 (freshly calibrated, nitrite 0, and ammonia 0. I am also experiencing either a bacteria bloom or fallout from alkalinity/calcium imbalance (I add 1 teaspoon of soda ash every other day to offset the alk depletion from the Sulfur Reactor). I am very concerned.

That is not Lymphocystis. I've never seen a PBT develop HLLE, but these lesions are right where that would be. Do the lesions look sunken in to you though? To me, they look raised up, and that is then the excess mucus production that your hepatus tang was showing. If so, there is something in the water that is irritating the fish so that they produce excess mucus. I just can't tell you exactly what that is. It may be related to the sulfur reactor, or the precipitation/bacterial bloom.

Jay

 

[kboogie]

That is not Lymphocystis. I've never seen a PBT develop HLLE, but these lesions are right where that would be. Do the lesions look sunken in to you though? To me, they look raised up, and that is then the excess mucus production that your hepatus tang was showing. If so, there is something in the water that is irritating the fish so that they produce excess mucus. I just can't tell you exactly what that is. It may be related to the sulfur reactor, or the precipitation/bacterial bloom.

Jay

The lesions are raised but there are indentations next to the raised lesion almost as if raised area shrank and left behind an indentation.