Issues with angelfish in qt

[JC1977]

Ok so I have a 40 breeder set up as a QT tank. I’m running an Aqua Clear 110 power filter with the sponge and a large media bag filled with siporax bio media in it. Also running an MP 10 for circulation. Temp is 79. Salinity is 1.023. Ammonia badge reads zero. I ordered a Koran, Flame Back, and Eibli Angel from live aquaria and dropped them in. I waited a week to start dosing copper power to ensure everybody was eating good. Fish were doing great literally eating out of my hand. I ramped up the copper over three days to 2.5. For seven days everything was fine. I tested copper frequently with Hannah checker and fish continued eating well. This morning I noticed immediately fish weren’t out in front of tank swimming around as they had been. They all looked lethargic and were twitching. I tried to feed them and while they did eat it wasn’t with the same gusto I had observed previously. From my research I’m assuming this is an adverse reaction to the copper power. I tested copper levels again and it’s still reading close to 2.5 at 2.45 which is in the acceptable range from what I’ve read. My plan had been to keep them in copper power for 14 days and then transfer them to a separate breeder observation tank which was already set up and running but due to the circumstances I moved them early for the well being of the fish. Im really baffled with this as I have quarantined several angelfish with copper power in the past for 30 days without issues. Even more frustrating is I’m stuck with 3 fish who haven’t finished quarantine and can’t go into my DT. Is this just crap luck? A case of these particular fish being copper intolerant? Also if angelfish in general are this sensitive to copper then how does everyone else go about quarantining their angelfish especially the online vendors?? Anyhow any insight or thoughts on this are welcome. As you can imagine it’s been a very frustrating day for me! Thanks for reading.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok so I have a 40 breeder set up as a QT tank. I’m running an Aqua Clear 110 power filter with the sponge and a large media bag filled with siporax bio media in it. Also running an MP 10 for circulation. Temp is 79. Salinity is 1.023. Ammonia badge reads zero. I ordered a Koran, Flame Back, and Eibli Angel from live aquaria and dropped them in. I waited a week to start dosing copper power to ensure everybody was eating good. Fish were doing great literally eating out of my hand. I ramped up the copper over three days to 2.5. For seven days everything was fine. I tested copper frequently with Hannah checker and fish continued eating well. This morning I noticed immediately fish weren’t out in front of tank swimming around as they had been. They all looked lethargic and were twitching. I tried to feed them and while they did eat it wasn’t with the same gusto I had observed previously. From my research I’m assuming this is an adverse reaction to the copper power. I tested copper levels again and it’s still reading close to 2.5 at 2.45 which is in the acceptable range from what I’ve read. My plan had been to keep them in copper power for 14 days and then transfer them to a separate breeder observation tank which was already set up and running but due to the circumstances I moved them early for the well being of the fish. Im really baffled with this as I have quarantined several angelfish with copper power in the past for 30 days without issues. Even more frustrating is I’m stuck with 3 fish who haven’t finished quarantine and can’t go into my DT. Is this just crap luck? A case of these particular fish being copper intolerant? Also if angelfish in general are this sensitive to copper then how does everyone else go about quarantining their angelfish especially the online vendors?? Anyhow any insight or thoughts on this are welcome. As you can imagine it’s been a very frustrating day for me! Thanks for reading.

A few things I see. Did you remove any carbon from filter?
Waiting was the first mistake before medicating as it allowed any possible parsites to reproduce and infect fish. Ramping is Not recommended as it allows a given disease to gain hold of a fish and again infect the fish. Get to treatment level of 2.25-2.5 within 24 hours. 2.5 is the max and recommended 2.25. Coppersafe/copperpower takes effect above 2.0. With twitching now, recommended is a FULL 30 days- not 14.
Add aeration with air stone to tank and please use a reliable test kit. I will not trust a $7 badge to sustain a couple hundred or more in fish

 

[JC1977]

A few things I see. Did you remove any carbon from filter?
Waiting was the first mistake before medicating as it allowed any possible parsites to reproduce and infect fish. Ramping is Not recommended as it allows a given disease to gain hold of a fish and again infect the fish. Get to treatment level of 2.25-2.5 within 24 hours. 2.5 is the max and recommended 2.25. Coppersafe/copperpower takes effect above 2.0. With twitching now, recommended is a FULL 30 days- not 14.
Add aeration with air stone to tank and please use a reliable test kit. I will not trust a $7 badge to sustain a couple hundred or more in fish

I know carbon is a no no. The water level in tank is several inches below the lip so water is splashing down pretty good creating surface agitation. I’ll definitely dose sooner in the future if I qt again. Thanks for the advice

 

[MnFish1]

Ok so I have a 40 breeder set up as a QT tank. I’m running an Aqua Clear 110 power filter with the sponge and a large media bag filled with siporax bio media in it. Also running an MP 10 for circulation. Temp is 79. Salinity is 1.023. Ammonia badge reads zero. I ordered a Koran, Flame Back, and Eibli Angel from live aquaria and dropped them in. I waited a week to start dosing copper power to ensure everybody was eating good. Fish were doing great literally eating out of my hand. I ramped up the copper over three days to 2.5. For seven days everything was fine. I tested copper frequently with Hannah checker and fish continued eating well. This morning I noticed immediately fish weren’t out in front of tank swimming around as they had been. They all looked lethargic and were twitching. I tried to feed them and while they did eat it wasn’t with the same gusto I had observed previously. From my research I’m assuming this is an adverse reaction to the copper power. I tested copper levels again and it’s still reading close to 2.5 at 2.45 which is in the acceptable range from what I’ve read. My plan had been to keep them in copper power for 14 days and then transfer them to a separate breeder observation tank which was already set up and running but due to the circumstances I moved them early for the well being of the fish. Im really baffled with this as I have quarantined several angelfish with copper power in the past for 30 days without issues. Even more frustrating is I’m stuck with 3 fish who haven’t finished quarantine and can’t go into my DT. Is this just crap luck? A case of these particular fish being copper intolerant? Also if angelfish in general are this sensitive to copper then how does everyone else go about quarantining their angelfish especially the online vendors?? Anyhow any insight or thoughts on this are welcome. As you can imagine it’s been a very frustrating day for me! Thanks for reading.

I do not think, unless there was a mistake in dosing (or your test kit) - that the issues relate to copper instead - perhaps another illness. You're correct in the copper range you were shooting for. I think there is a problem either with the test (is it too high or low) - or is it something not treated with copper. I doubt 3 fish would randomly be copper intolerant. I do not think copper should cause these symptoms. Unfortunately - it's kind of impossible to judge - I would have left the fish in copper - but I would have gotten a confirmatory test. It sounds extremely frustrating - and sorry. It's also possible that another illness/issue not treated by copper is having an effect - like flukes, etc. Are the fish having any symptoms of flukes - breathing, mouth open, or anything else? Unfortunately - I think you may be the victim of the waiting game - i.e. not treating immediately. Disease can take hold - for example velvet - which could be causing the problem within that week - which means you're behind the timeline for the best treatment. The protocol here is 30 days copper at 2.25-2.5 - followed by prazipro x 2 doses, followed by observation. Im also curious how the fish were obtained an LFS (could there be a salinity difference - a problem with acclimation)

 

[JC1977]

I do not think, unless there was a mistake in dosing (or your test kit) - that the issues relate to copper instead - perhaps another illness. You're correct in the copper range you were shooting for. I think there is a problem either with the test (is it too high or low) - or is it something not treated with copper. I doubt 3 fish would randomly be copper intolerant. I do not think copper should cause these symptoms. Unfortunately - it's kind of impossible to judge - I would have left the fish in copper - but I would have gotten a confirmatory test. It sounds extremely frustrating - and sorry. It's also possible that another illness/issue not treated by copper is having an effect - like flukes, etc. Are the fish having any symptoms of flukes - breathing, mouth open, or anything else? Unfortunately - I think you may be the victim of the waiting game - i.e. not treating immediately. Disease can take hold - for example velvet - which could be causing the problem within that week - which means you're behind the timeline for the best treatment.

Some flashing but mainly twitching and being lethargic. I suppose flukes is a possibility? I’ve never had to deal with flukes so can’t say for sure. I agree I may have pulled a knee jerk reaction moving the fish but it seemed like a smart move at the time.

 

[MnFish1]

Some flashing but mainly twitching and being lethargic. I suppose flukes is a possibility? I’ve never had to deal with flukes so can’t say for sure. I agree I may have pulled a knee jerk reaction moving the fish but it seemed like a smart move at the time.

Well - I guess it will be interesting to see what happens. Do you think they have improved?

 

[JC1977]

Well - I guess it will be interesting to see what happens. Do you think they have improved?

The flame back and eibli seem more alert in the observation tank but the Koran is just kind of hovering in the back corner and he had been eating out of my hand yesterday smh.

 

[MnFish1]

Well - I guess it will be interesting to see what happens. Do you think they have improved?

I'm not criticizing - however, I think it's important - unless there is a clear (very clear) reason to change a QT protocol - don't do it - keep it up. I'm not sure what to recommend you do now as far as treatment. Its difficult to stay the course, but often thats the best idea IMHO

 

[JC1977]

I'm not criticizing - however, I think it's important - unless there is a clear (very clear) reason to change a QT protocol - don't do it - keep it up. I'm not sure what to recommend you do now as far as treatment. Its difficult to stay the course, but often thats the best idea IMHO

Good advice thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Some flashing but mainly twitching and being lethargic. I suppose flukes is a possibility? I’ve never had to deal with flukes so can’t say for sure. I agree I may have pulled a knee jerk reaction moving the fish but it seemed like a smart move at the time.

Sounds like it could be flukes. Copper power won’t treat that, you’d need to use praziquantel.

Can you post a video though? Flukes typically have a slow progression with weeks of scratching before lethargy shows up. Also, are all fish affected to the same degree? Is one worse than the others?

Are they still eating?

A differential diagnosis is that this could be brooklynella, as copper doesn’t treat that.