Is tusk blindness reversable?

[jasonrusso]

I recently bought a 6-7" harlequin tusk. My #1 concern with these guys is blindness. I had one years ago that died when he had an encounter with my lionfish.

I inquired about this for a while and was assured that he was healthy. I received him last Friday, and within a day I could tell he was blind or nearly blind.

I have been in contact with the store and they agreed to refund me the money and pay for me to ship him back if I don't want the burden of caring for him (however, neither has happened yet).

It took him a week before he started eating, but once he did his behavior changed immensely. He went from bobbing around the surface all day to swimming around and through the rocks. I was 95% sure that I was going to keep him, until tonight. It was feeding time and my porcupine puffer was eating by the bottom. The tusk smelled the food and mistakenly nipped the puffer. The puffer is going to be ok, but I don't think I can keep the tusk now. He's a big boy with big teeth and in this state it's an accident waiting to happen.

Now the question is this, is the blindness reversible? I confirmed that he is not 100% blind. If I shine a flashlight in his eyes, I definitely get a reaction. Sometimes I get a reaction if I make a motion to the tank quickly. The store had him in copper, so I am sure that's the reason for the blindness. If he may get better, I might be up to nursing him back to health. If not, I can't keep him. I really don't want to ship him back and have him die, but I can't risk my other fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I recently bought a 6-7" harlequin tusk. My #1 concern with these guys is blindness. I had one years ago that died when he had an encounter with my lionfish.

I inquired about this for a while and was assured that he was healthy. I received him last Friday, and within a day I could tell he was blind or nearly blind.

I have been in contact with the store and they agreed to refund me the money and pay for me to ship him back if I don't want the burden of caring for him (however, neither has happened yet).

It took him a week before he started eating, but once he did his behavior changed immensely. He went from bobbing around the surface all day to swimming around and through the rocks. I was 95% sure that I was going to keep him, until tonight. It was feeding time and my porcupine puffer was eating by the bottom. The tusk smelled the food and mistakenly nipped the puffer. The puffer is going to be ok, but I don't think I can keep the tusk now. He's a big boy with big teeth and in this state it's an accident waiting to happen.

Now the question is this, is the blindness reversible? I confirmed that he is not 100% blind. If I shine a flashlight in his eyes, I definitely get a reaction. Sometimes I get a reaction if I make a motion to the tank quickly. The store had him in copper, so I am sure that's the reason for the blindness. If he may get better, I might be up to nursing him back to health. If not, I can't keep him. I really don't want to ship him back and have him die, but I can't risk my other fish.

Copper doesn’t cause fish to go blind, but in many cases, the cause can’t be determined.

No hazing or cloudiness to the eyes?
If not, there generally is not any treatment for this other than time (in some cases).
Here is a link to an article on fish eye health if you want more background info:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay

 

[Tamberav]

Copper doesn’t cause fish to go blind, but in many cases, the cause can’t be determined.

No hazing or cloudiness to the eyes?
If not, there generally is not any treatment for this other than time (in some cases).
Here is a link to an article on fish eye health if you want more background info:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay

What about cyanide? Not sure if that is an issue with tusks or not. Just curious.

 

[SasquatchReefer]

I would say there is a high probability that the blindness comes from the way they were collected from the ocean, I haven’t had it happen with harlequin tusks, but once had a whole shipment of large sohal tangs come in completely blind.

 

[jasonrusso]

Copper doesn’t cause fish to go blind, but in many cases, the cause can’t be determined.

No hazing or cloudiness to the eyes?
If not, there generally is not any treatment for this other than time (in some cases).
Here is a link to an article on fish eye health if you want more background info:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay

Eyes are clear and move around like he's looking for something.

I've read in a few places about tuskfish and copper blindness (mostly on wet web). Are you saying this isn't a thing?

 

[jasonrusso]

I would say there is a high probability that the blindness comes from the way they were collected from the ocean, I haven’t had it happen with harlequin tusks, but once had a whole shipment of large sohal tangs come in completely blind.

Normally the Australians aren't collected that way. I don't THINK that is the case, because he seems 100% other than that vision problem.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What about cyanide? Not sure if that is an issue with tusks or not. Just curious.

I've not seen that either - but that is less identifiable. You know if you dosed a fish with copper or not, but cyanide collection isn't something anyone can confirm.

True blindness like this, without eye damage or cataracts is very rare. Most people who report it here actually have a moribund fish. This one is still eating, so that is a key to determining it is true blindness and not some other health issue.

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

I've not seen that either - but that is less identifiable. You know if you dosed a fish with copper or not, but cyanide collection isn't something anyone can confirm.

True blindness like this, without eye damage or cataracts is very rare. Most people who report it here actually have a moribund fish. This one is still eating, so that is a key to determining it is true blindness and not some other health issue.

Jay

He's not 100% blind, he actually seems to see better when the lights are off and it's just ambient lighting.

Bob Fenner said several times on his page that it's usually nutritional. I'm hoping that I see a big change in the next day or two.

As soon as he started eating I saw a drastic difference in awareness and behavior. If it wasn't for the fear of him bitting another fish I would 100% keep him..

I also think that Tusks are SUPER pussycats and get extremely stressed. Maybe it's from stress if it's possible.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

He's not 100% blind, he actually seems to see better when the lights are off and it's just ambient lighting.

Bob Fenner said several times on his page that it's usually nutritional. I'm hoping that I see a big change in the next day or two.

As soon as he started eating I saw a drastic difference in awareness and behavior. If it wasn't for the fear of him bitting another fish I would 100% keep him..

I also think that Tusks are SUPER pussycats and get extremely stressed. Maybe it's from stress if it's possible.

Sorry, yes, I knew the fish could "sort of see", I was just using blindness as a general term.

Eye issues can be caused by dietary deficiencies, notably riboflavin or vitamin A. However, these take a long time to manifest, and neither of those two vitamins are typically low in the foods we feed our fish, so it really only shows up in diets where they artificially remove those vitamins to note the effects. The two most common deficient vitamins in fish diets are B1 and E.

I wonder - can you put a divider in the tank? It sounds like the fish is improving, and if you could hand feed it for some time, in a way it can't chomp on the other fish, it might recover?

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

Sorry, yes, I knew the fish could "sort of see", I was just using blindness as a general term.

Eye issues can be caused by dietary deficiencies, notably riboflavin or vitamin A. However, these take a long time to manifest, and neither of those two vitamins are typically low in the foods we feed our fish, so it really only shows up in diets where they artificially remove those vitamins to note the effects. The two most common deficient vitamins in fish diets are B1 and E.

I wonder - can you put a divider in the tank? It sounds like the fish is improving, and if you could hand feed it for some time, in a way it can't chomp on the other fish, it might recover?

Jay

I can't really put a divider in, and he's too big for an acclimation box. I could probably give him a piece of food large enough to keep him busy while the others are eating.

Tbh, I'm upset that I even have to go through all this after the LFS told me he was good. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid, but it's not the fish's fault.

 

[lion king]

I've had a few fish go blind, it is progressive. I have my own theories and I'm just not in the mood, but I will say this, every single one of them had copper treatment in their history. You can find my threads going back years on this subject. I did have a tusk that went blind, and have seen a few from other hobbyist. What happens many times is the fish just retreats behind the rocks and starves to death as the blindness progresses, and most times a hobbyist doesn't even know that blindness was the cause. While it is possible to extend their life with stick feeding, I've never had success with stick feeding a tusk. I have extended the life of other fish, like my pink tail trigger for a few years by establishing stick feeding.

 

[jasonrusso]

I've had a few fish go blind, it is progressive. I have my own theories and I'm just not in the mood, but I will say this, every single one of them had copper treatment in their history. You can find my threads going back years on this subject. I did have a tusk that went blind, and have seen a few from other hobbyist. What happens many times is the fish just retreats behind the rocks and starves to death as the blindness progresses, and most times a hobbyist doesn't even know that blindness was the cause. While it is possible to extend their life with stick feeding, I've never had success with stick feeding a tusk. I have extended the life of other fish, like my pink tail trigger for a few years by establishing stick feeding.

Hopefully I can beat the odds. He seems to be improving. He found a spot he likes, he swims between caves without touching the sides, etc.

My concern is biting another fish by accident. A 6-7" tusk has some teeth!!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Eyes are clear and move around like he's looking for something.

I've read in a few places about tuskfish and copper blindness (mostly on wet web). Are you saying this isn't a thing?

Sorry, I may have missed this post. Copper treatments do NOT cause blindness in fish when I do them. I’ve dosed thousands of fish including dozens of tusks, held them long term in a public aquarium and have zero cases of blindness. Can copper cause blindness when done improperly? I don’t know. There are concerns that using amine based copper products with reducing agents can release toxic levels of free copper….but I don’t use ammonia removers, formalin, etc with copper…..

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

His eyes are clear and he seems alert. I think that I see him follow my finger, maybe it's just wishful thinking. He never backs into the corner if I'm not there waving my hand. He does like hanging around up there between laps.

I think I'm actually getting a bit of a response from him. He does move away from my hand. Prior tusks I have had were always more skiddish, but this one is older.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

His eyes are clear and he seems alert. I think that I see him follow my finger, maybe it's just wishful thinking. He never backs into the corner if I'm not there waving my hand. He does like hanging around up there between laps.

I think I'm actually getting a bit of a response from him. He does move away from my hand. Prior tusks I have had were always more skiddish, but this one is older.

So weird how the eyes seem to be tracking....

Jay

 

[jasonrusso]

So weird how the eyes seem to be tracking....

Jay

Would you agree there is still "something" there?

 

[vetteguy53081]

His eyes are clear and he seems alert. I think that I see him follow my finger, maybe it's just wishful thinking. He never backs into the corner if I'm not there waving my hand. He does like hanging around up there between laps.

I think I'm actually getting a bit of a response from him. He does move away from my hand. Prior tusks I have had were always more skiddish, but this one is older.

They are susceptible to popeye and I dont believe they are cyanide caught nor Get copper poisoning. Im on my third tusk over 20+ years and have had one who seemed it could not see but after a paus e appeared normal and ate Aggressively. I cant say the appearance of the eye and retina determines its ability to see but looking at your pics, its eyes appears the same as Mine who has now reached 9".

 

[jasonrusso]

They are susceptible to popeye and I dont believe they are cyanide caught nor Get copper poisoning. Im on my third tusk over 20+ years and have had one who seemed it could not see but after a paus e appeared normal and ate Aggressively. I cant say the appearance of the eye and retina determines its ability to see but looking at your pics, its eyes appears the same as Mine who has now reached 9".

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Beautiful fish. I like the last picture. He has a weird expression.

Did you see the videos? Please watch them and tell me what you think about the movement of the eyes. I would think that the eyes wouldn't be "searching" if he couldn't see at all.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Beautiful fish. I like the last picture. He has a weird expression.

Did you see the videos? Please watch them and tell me what you think about the movement of the eyes. I would think that the eyes wouldn't be "searching" if he couldn't see at all.

I missed video but saw it now. The eye movement of mine is the same which reminds me of how a chameleon moves its eyes. Difference is : Mine would take off at sight of my hand.
What foods are you feeding? Are you adding vitamins to diet?
While mine eats anything, its favorite is fresh scallops, shrimp,. mussel, clam and non oily fish. Vitamin deficiency is huge with this type of fish

 

[jasonrusso]

I missed video but saw it now. The eye movement of mine is the same which reminds me of how a chameleon moves its eyes. Difference is : Mine would take off at sight of my hand.
What foods are you feeding? Are you adding vitamins to diet?
While mine eats anything, its favorite is fresh scallops, shrimp,. mussel, clam and non oily fish. Vitamin deficiency is huge with this type of fish

Yes, that is what I am used to as well. They are skiddish.

I just got him eating on Friday after a week. I do use vitachem and selcon (not sure how much sticks to the food). He's been eating cockles, silverslide, chunks of LRS, I was going to try salmon today.

After he ate, his behavior changed immensely.