Is this Marine life or is it Chemistry? (Keeping up with the SPS's)

[TSE]

Hello Reefing Community,
I am currently working through, what I think are the usual bio-chem pains of knowing what my aquarium tank needs in order to thrive. This may seem very beginner but it still seems a bit foreign to me to figure out and would like the help of the community to figure out if I am on the "right-ish" path or if I need to make some changes.

As a short intro, I have been in the hobby for probably 10+ plus years but it feels like the last several I have been getting deeper into the sea (weeds) to learn more about how to make my tank strive. I upgraded my 45 gallon to a 110.4 WB and have had this current setup for going on three years. (I will attach pictures and I apologize if the quality is a bit subpar).

Here is the problem.

I cannot seem to sustain any SPS, Acropora or Montipora for an extended period of time.

What seems to tolerate my current setup are softies, a fox coral, koji branch, anacropora, my lowly acan, some chalices.
And when I say tolerate, I have not seen any growth (a little more on that later) eventhough I have had some of them in the tank for well over a year, more than six months.

When I initially had a few beginner acro and a green monti, they thrived for a short period (a month I think) and then for reasons that I did not understand at the time, the monti RTN'd and my acro that was thriving for months followed suit. It looked like I was going to lose my chalices and another orange chalice/monti? but they recently bounced back after what I believe was my usage of Kalkwasser/Soda Ash.

On the topic of Kalkwasser and Soda Ash, I had always been hesitant on doing any dosing until I really understood what and why I would dose certain things. After finding that my Alkalinity seemed pretty low thanks to talking to my own "Reef Sensei" who is a good friend of mine and has been in the hobby for years, I started dosing a combination of Kalkwasser and Soda Ash since I noticed that Kalkwasser alone was not raising my Alkalinity.

I originally dosed 2.6ml of Soda ash in combination with Kalkwasser for a week time to test the Alkalinty and it shot up to 9.2dkH. The perplexing thing to me was I completely stopped dosing both Soda Ash and Kalk for one day and retested the next morning and it was down to 7.5dkH. So now I started to dose again slowly to get the numbers up and stable.

So here are my tank current stats:

Phosphate: 0.04
Nitrate: 10
Mg: 1430
Calc: 480
PH: 8.6
Alk: 7.6

Currently dosing total 150ml (Kalk) from midnight-6 am every hour (21.4ml)
Soda Ash - 1.6ml every 2/3 hours during the day.

My lights are AI HD Primes.

So I suppose one of my main questions is, does my dosing seem appropriate? What other things would you all recommend I do?

Thanks everyone,
~TSE

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

What percentage are the lights set at? As someone that uses metal hallides + 2 OR3's on my 40 gallon, my first thought is turn your lights up. I don't consider AI Prime to be a very strong light, I have it on my 15 gallon softie tank at 75%, and everything grows like crazy.

If you've never rented a par meter, I would suggest to do so, but I'm thinking low lights might be an issue.

 

[ryanjohn1]

IMO. You may not have enough light. Is that a 4 ft tank? I’m running 3 hydra 32’s on 4 ft and may add another one. Have you tested par? Sand bed won’t be enough light for sps on them lights

 

[ryanjohn1]

Mojo. I was typing as u posted. lol. Same thoughts here

 

[TSE]

What percentage are the lights set at? As someone that uses metal hallides + 2 OR3's on my 40 gallon, my first thought is turn your lights up. I don't consider AI Prime to be a very strong light, I have it on my 15 gallon softie tank at 75%, and everything grows like crazy.

If you've never rented a par meter, I would suggest to do so, but I'm thinking low lights might be an issue.

They are at 53%.

Renting a PAR meter is a great idea as well. I was hoping that one of my local stores had one but I will have to go the BRS route it seems.

Thank you for your suggestion

 

[TSE]

IMO. You may not have enough light. Is that a 4 ft tank? I’m running 3 hydra 32’s on 4 ft and may add another one. Have you tested par? Sand bed won’t be enough light for sps on them lights

Haha thank you. Yes, it is a 4ft tank. I was really hoping 3 pucks would be sufficient. But wondering if adding a 4th would help or if I should just have to bump it up with either new lights all together or looking at blades. I guess what I have now is equivalent to 1.5 hydras and if you have 3 looking at going for 4 then...whew...I was hoping not to spend on a whole new lighting system but I will test the PAR and if that's what I have to do then so be it .

 

[ryanjohn1]

Haha thank you. Yes, it is a 4ft tank. I was really hoping 3 pucks would be sufficient. But wondering if adding a 4th would help or if I should just have to bump it up with either new lights all together or looking at blades. I guess what I have now is equivalent to 1.5 hydras and if you have 3 looking at going for 4 then...whew...I was hoping not to spend on a whole new lighting system but I will test the PAR and if that's what I have to do then so be it .

I usually wait till brs has a sale on the lights. It’s usually about $100 off. That when I get them. I was running 2 hydra and 2 blades. That will grow sps as well. Probably for time being move your sps to the top of your rock like directly under the primes and turn them up to like 80%

 

[ryanjohn1]

Haha thank you. Yes, it is a 4ft tank. I was really hoping 3 pucks would be sufficient. But wondering if adding a 4th would help or if I should just have to bump it up with either new lights all together or looking at blades. I guess what I have now is equivalent to 1.5 hydras and if you have 3 looking at going for 4 then...whew...I was hoping not to spend on a whole new lighting system but I will test the PAR and if that's what I have to do then so be it .

What state are you in. I’m probably gonna sell my 2 blades in the future. I’m in pa

 

[TSE]

What state are you in. I’m probably gonna sell my 2 blades in the future. I’m in pa

Thank you! Will do. I live in NJ. Somewhat of a stone throw away. Lmk if you do?

 

[X-37B]

I would turn them up. I
ran 8 16hds for awhile.
Always ran 100% first 4, 50% the rest.
Great color and growth.
I ran 2 on a 18" cube, 4 on a 36×24×12 frag tank and 2 in a 30 g 24x20x18.
Cube, frag, 30.

 

[TSE]

I would turn them up. I
ran 8 16hds for awhile.
Always ran 100% first 4, 50% the rest.
Great color and growth.
I ran 2 on a 18" cube, 4 on a 36×24×12 frag tank and 2 in a 30 g 24x20x18.
Cube, frag, 30.

Beautiful set ups and love the coloration on your corals. Thank you also for your suggestion. I went ahead and took @ryanjohn1 advice and moved the acros up and raised the intensity to 80%. Fingers crossed!

 

[DanyL]

I think you were given the right advice about lighting - it’s likely the reason why nothing grows and SPS died.

You asked about your dosing and it seems like no one addressed this question here yet.

Kalkwasser (Calcium Hydroxide) would evenly increase both calcium and alkalinity.

Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) would only increase your Alkalinity.

Now, in your current situation I don’t see that you’re lacking any Ca, however you need to consider that Alk and Ca both eventually need to create Calcium Bi/Carbonate for coral consumption, this means that Calcium need to be dosed together with Soda Ash to keep a correct ratio between them.

Both also increase PH, with Kalk being more basic (raises PH more) than Soda Ash.

Looking at your high PH I see no reason to use any of them, because it was kill already within the acceptable range, and by using both you shot it higher than recommended.

Keeping a high PH like this Isn’t terrible, but at this point you’re also not benefiting it either and you may inhibit precipitation and other side effects.

I suggest you to reconsider their use in combination with each other, maybe just one of them would be enough to keep your PH at around 8.2-8.4, and for the rest use alternatives like Calcium Chloride or baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate).

You may also decide to switch altogether to use Sodium Bicarbonate and Calcium Chloride - that’s a viable option too.

Either way - most important thing in reef keeping, especially with stony corals is to prevent parameter swings, so any changes done to your values needs to be measured and slow. A good way to know how slow is to lookup the daily limits and following them even at 50 or 70 percent.

 

[ryanjohn1]

Since we’re sharing pictures

 

[TSE]

I think you were given the right advice about lighting - it’s likely the reason why nothing grows and SPS died.

You asked about your dosing and it seems like no one addressed this question here yet.

Kalkwasser (Calcium Hydroxide) would evenly increase both calcium and alkalinity.

Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate) would only increase your Alkalinity.

Now, in your current situation I don’t see that you’re lacking any Ca, however you need to consider that Alk and Ca both eventually need to create Calcium Bi/Carbonate for coral consumption, this means that Calcium need to be dosed together with Soda Ash to keep a correct ratio between them.

Both also increase PH, with Kalk being more basic (raises PH more) than Soda Ash.

Looking at your high PH I see no reason to use any of them, because it was kill already within the acceptable range, and by using both you shot it higher than recommended.

Keeping a high PH like this Isn’t terrible, but at this point you’re also not benefiting it either and you may inhibit precipitation and other side effects.

I suggest you to reconsider their use in combination with each other, maybe just one of them would be enough to keep your PH at around 8.2-8.4, and for the rest use alternatives like Calcium Chloride or baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate).

You may also decide to switch altogether to use Sodium Bicarbonate and Calcium Chloride - that’s a viable option too.

Either way - most important thing in reef keeping, especially with stony corals is to prevent parameter swings, so any changes done to your values needs to be measured and slow. A good way to know how slow is to lookup the daily limits and following them even at 50 or 70 percent.

Thank you DanyL.

Your advice along with everyone else have been very eye opening. Indeed, I was against the initial use of Kalkwasser/Soda Ash as I was not 100% certain. I was given the advice to "just do it" but when things started to repeatedly get bad for my coral, I gave in. That being said, I will very much consider, if anything just using Sodium Bicarbonate as my Alkalinity seems to be what I would like to concentrate on specifically.

Interestingly (to me), the store that I made several of my recent purchases from run their Alkalinity in the 7.6 range anyway so it seems if anything, the lighting may be the initial culprit but I still will consider using Sodium Bicarbonate/Calcium Chloride route. Guess it's off to the store I go .

Again, very appreciative to all the help and I hope to report in the not so distant future my status. I'll be making this change tonight.

 

[TSE]

Since we’re sharing pictures

Very beautiful and motivating. This is what I want to strive for

 

[DanyL]

Indeed, I was against the initial use of Kalkwasser/Soda Ash as I was not 100% certain. I was given the advice to "just do it" but when things started to repeatedly get bad for my coral, I gave in.

Kalk and Soda Ash are solid solutions for Alkalinity and Calcium supplementation.
But when choosing your supplements you also need to consider wether their added benefits (if any) fit your needs appropriately.

In your case - your PH was already high enough, so using a high PH solution isn’t beneficial, and thus a better fit would be the use of Sodium Bicarbonate and Calcium Chloride.

You’ll also want to supplement Magnesium to keep the ratio between the 3 balanced.
For Magnesium you can use either Magnesium Chloride alone, or mixed together with Magnesium Sulfate.
If you look for recipes you’ll find instructions for both.

Interestingly (to me), the store that I made several of my recent purchases from run their Alkalinity in the 7.6 range anyway

Note that my remarks were about PH rather than Alkalinity levels.

You can keep corals at Alk in the range of 6 to 14 dKH, where the lower values would result in a slower growth rate but with a more dense skeleton and better coloring, while higher numbers would result in higher growth rate, but more brittle skeleton and coloring.

Coloring objective is more relevant to Acroporas and is in relation to nutrient levels, and as with anything else that considers the look of corals - it is a matter of taste.

A more conservative range would be between 8 to 10 dKH - this range gives you a safety distance from the outer boundaries in case of an accident, and would give you a good balance of the pros/cons described above.

That being said, like mentioned earlier - it is far more important to keep Alk as stable as possible and to prevent fluctuations.
Keep a number (i.e 8.5 dKH) and try to keep it as close as possible to your target.

but I still will consider using Sodium Bicarbonate/Calcium Chloride route. Guess it's off to the store I go .

Until you have a decent daily consumption, another relevant approach is to rely on weekly water changes for their replenishment.

Regarding your lighting situation - if you are considering a full upgrade, I highly suggest taking the ReeFi Uno 2.0 into consideration.
At only 50$ price difference between them and the Hydra 32, it’s well worth the investment.

I use 2 ReeFi Uno 2.0 on my frag tank which is similar in size to your tank, mine are mounted 50cm above water line with the 90 degree reeflectors. You’ll likely be able to get a similar spread with the 120 degree reeflectors at a lower mounting height as well. I’m very satisfied with the results, although there are other decent options at different price points.

 

[TSE]

Kalk and Soda Ash are solid solutions for Alkalinity and Calcium supplementation.
But when choosing your supplements you also need to consider wether their added benefits (if any) fit your needs appropriately.

In your case - your PH was already high enough, so using a high PH solution isn’t beneficial, and thus a better fit would be the use of Sodium Bicarbonate and Calcium Chloride.

You’ll also want to supplement Magnesium to keep the ratio between the 3 balanced.
For Magnesium you can use either Magnesium Chloride alone, or mixed together with Magnesium Sulfate.
If you look for recipes you’ll find instructions for both.


Note that my remarks were about PH rather than Alkalinity levels.

You can keep corals at Alk in the range of 6 to 14 dKH, where the lower values would result in a slower growth rate but with a more dense skeleton and better coloring, while higher numbers would result in higher growth rate, but more brittle skeleton and coloring.

Coloring objective is more relevant to Acroporas and is in relation to nutrient levels, and as with anything else that considers the look of corals - it is a matter of taste.

A more conservative range would be between 8 to 10 dKH - this range gives you a safety distance from the outer boundaries in case of an accident, and would give you a good balance of the pros/cons described above.

That being said, like mentioned earlier - it is far more important to keep Alk as stable as possible and to prevent fluctuations.
Keep a number (i.e 8.5 dKH) and try to keep it as close as possible to your target.


Until you have a decent daily consumption, another relevant approach is to rely on weekly water changes for their replenishment.

Regarding your lighting situation - if you are considering a full upgrade, I highly suggest taking the ReeFi Uno 2.0 into consideration.
At only 50$ price difference between them and the Hydra 32, it’s well worth the investment.

I use 2 ReeFi Uno 2.0 on my frag tank which is similar in size to your tank, mine are mounted 50cm above water line with the 90 degree reeflectors. You’ll likely be able to get a similar spread with the 120 degree reeflectors at a lower mounting height as well. I’m very satisfied with the results, although there are other decent options at different price points.

Holy Moly DanyL...

My thoughts have no specific order but your tank is beautiful! I don't suppose you're in the NJ/PA area? lol.

Also, I read your words at length and so I ran out today to get the supplies you specified and i'm going to do a little reading on how to dose them once I do a water change to establish more of a baseline/see the consumption rate of my parameters.

I love your lighting set up. Is that arm you use for your ReeFI Uno a DIY? Lovely lights indeed. Another option to consider if Ryan doesn't sell his AI's . I'm hoping my sticks can survive a little bit in the interim.

Thank you and the others for taking the time to educate me. I'm open to even more thoughts and feedback.

 

[DanyL]

My thoughts have no specific order but your tank is beautiful!

Haha thank you!

I don't suppose you're in the NJ/PA area? lol.

We're only 9,140 km (5,680 miles) apart from each other

I do a water change to establish more of a baseline/see the consumption rate of my parameters.

That's a good plan.
As I suggested earlier - if your consumption rate isn't high yet, you can probably cope with weekly water changes alone for now.

A good way to calculate the amounts needed as a baseline for daily dosage is to use this calculator here.

Is that arm you use for your ReeFI Uno a DIY?

Yes, indeed it is.
I built my stand and light mounts from modular profiles with the intent to give it an industrial look.
It is an upside down "L" shaped arm made of 2 2040 profiles which connects to the 3030/3060 profiles the stand was built from using custom 3D printed fasteners I designed.

Here are a few shots from when I built this setup last year, it was supposed to be posted as an update for my build thread, but I got a a bit busy at the time and ended up never posting it.