Is my tank full fish capacity?

[Formulator]

As the title says, wondering everyone’s thoughts on whether I have room for anything else or at capacity. I was considering adding a mandarin and/or maybe another anthia (probably a bartletts). I don’t like using universal rules like fish per gallon or inches per gallon because I think every tank and combination of species is different. So what are your thoughts? It is a 120g (4x2x2 ft), with 60g sump and 20g fuge. I’m not so concerned about the bioload as I am with general husbandry and crowding.

Current tank inhabitants:
Foxface Rabbitfish
Blue Hippo Tang
2x ocelaris clowns
2x ornate leopard wrasse
Diamond goby
Blue chromis
Royal gramma
Fire dartfish
Lyretail antia

 

[FUNGI]

I think its relative really right...and depends on the size of your fish....

 

[fish farmer]

How big is the fox face and hippo tang? FWIW I had a 120 gallon 6 foot tank with both those fish and several smaller fish. Both times I had fox faces they dominated over the hippo...real pigs topping out at 7 inches or so before they died around 6 years old. The hippo was one of the first fish in the tank about 4 inches, did really well for several years, but started to get some curl on the pectoral fins and tail....assuming cramped conditions. The hippo did live about 20 years but was only about 8 inches and they should get much bigger.

 

[Formulator]

How big is the fox face and hippo tang? FWIW I had a 120 gallon 6 foot tank with both those fish and several smaller fish. Both times I had fox faces they dominated over the hippo...real pigs topping out at 7 inches or so before they died around 6 years old. The hippo was one of the first fish in the tank about 4 inches, did really well for several years, but started to get some curl on the pectoral fins and tail....assuming cramped conditions. The hippo did live about 20 years but was only about 8 inches and they should get much bigger.

Without measuring I’d say they are both about 6 inches. They have been together their entire life of about 3-4 years. They are best buddies and hang out together all the time. The foxface is a big baby and scared of everything. The hippo is the boss of the tank and will let the smaller fish know if they are in his way, but he’s generally pretty docile for a tang.

Also, the way my tank is setup, I have 2 rock islands with space on all sides, so with my tank dimensions they can do circles and figure-8’s instead of just swimming back and forth.

 

[Formulator]

So what are thoughts on adding a mandarin? I figure since it is a rock dweller and small it won’t really contribute to crowding.

 

[Uncle99]

So what are thoughts on adding a mandarin? I figure since it is a rock dweller and small it won’t really contribute to crowding.

I think that is a good match assuming a mature tank and lots of rock work. The mandarin seems oblivious to all fish, so the introduction is usually easy.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

To me, the foxface and the especially the tang get too large long term for a 4' tank. Just isn't fair to them, especially once you watch them swim in a bigger system.

However, as far as actual biological stocking, to me this is nowhere near fully stocked. I tend to stock very heavily, but I would not hesitate to add the fish you're looking at. For example, my 100 gallon (5'x18"x22") has the following:

1 Chaetodon citrinellus
1 Chaetodon ulietensis
1 Chaetodon xanthurus
1 Heniochus varius
1 Centropyge flavissima
5 Pseudanthias bartlettorum
1 Gramma loreto
1 Pseudochromis fridmani
1 Serranus baldwini
1 Paraclinus marmoratus
1 Blenniella chrysospilos
1 Cryptocentrus cinctus
1 Valenciennea strigata
1 Hoplolatilus marcosi
2 Pterapogon kauderni
1 Sphaeramia nematoptera
1 Pomacentrus similis
2 Amphiprion clarkii
1 Cirrhilabrus chaliasi
1 Cirrhilabrus filamentosus
1 Cirrhilabrus katoi
1 Cirrhilabrus lubbocki
1 Cirrhilabrus ryukyuensis
1 Halichoeres chrysus
1 Halichoeres cosmetus
1 Halichoeres marginatus
1 Halichoeres garnoti
1 Pseudojuloides splendens
1 Wetmorella nigropinnata

To be fair, I overfilter, do regular large water changes, feed very heavily to help cut down aggression, and I have other systems I can move fish to if fish decide not to get along. I recently removed my Moyers Leopard Wrasse and my Fiji Christmas Wrasse because the supermale cosmetus decided they were too similar and wanted to fight them. There are still a few other fish I plan on adding to this system, so while it is mostly done, there are a couple other butterflies, a spotted mandarin, and probably another 2-3 wrasses that will end up in here.

 

[Formulator]

To me, the foxface and the especially the tang get too large long term for a 4' tank. Just isn't fair to them, especially once you watch them swim in a bigger system.

However, as far as actual biological stocking, to me this is nowhere near fully stocked. I tend to stock very heavily, but I would not hesitate to add the fish you're looking at. For example, my 100 gallon (5'x18"x22") has the following:

1 Chaetodon citrinellus
1 Chaetodon ulietensis
1 Chaetodon xanthurus
1 Heniochus varius
1 Centropyge flavissima
5 Pseudanthias bartlettorum
1 Gramma loreto
1 Pseudochromis fridmani
1 Serranus baldwini
1 Paraclinus marmoratus
1 Blenniella chrysospilos
1 Cryptocentrus cinctus
1 Valenciennea strigata
1 Hoplolatilus marcosi
2 Pterapogon kauderni
1 Sphaeramia nematoptera
1 Pomacentrus similis
2 Amphiprion clarkii
1 Cirrhilabrus chaliasi
1 Cirrhilabrus filamentosus
1 Cirrhilabrus katoi
1 Cirrhilabrus lubbocki
1 Cirrhilabrus ryukyuensis
1 Halichoeres chrysus
1 Halichoeres cosmetus
1 Halichoeres marginatus
1 Halichoeres cyanocephalus
1 Pseudojuloides splendens
1 Wetmorella nigropinnata

To be fair, I overfilter, do regular large water changes, feed very heavily to help cut down aggression, and I have other systems I can move fish to if fish decide not to get along. I recently removed my Moyers Leopard Wrasse and my Fiji Christmas Wrasse because the supermale cosmetus decided they were too similar and wanted to fight them. There are still a few other fish I plan on adding to this system, so while it is mostly done, there are a couple other butterflies, a spotted mandarin, and probably another 2-3 wrasses that will end up in here.

Thanks! Your perspective that a 4’ tank is too small for the tang and foxface is interesting. I actually opted for the 4 ft 120g instead of the 6 ft 120g thinking the extra depth would give the fish more space to swim continuously rather than having a 6 ft straight line where they have to turn around and swim back at the end. Either way the fish will be re-homed in a huge 500g+ custom tank I am building into a new house we are building within the next 1-2 years.

Aside from that, I’m happy you think I have space for more fish in general. Is there any chance you would list those fish again with their common names? I’m not familiar with all the species nomenclature

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Thanks! Your perspective that a 4’ tank is too small for the tang and foxface is interesting. I actually opted for the 4 ft 120g instead of the 6 ft 120g thinking the extra depth would give the fish more space to swim continuously rather than having a 6 ft straight line where they have to turn around and swim back at the end. Either way the fish will be re-homed in a huge 500g+ custom tank I am building into a new house we are building within the next 1-2 years.

Aside from that, I’m happy you think I have space for more fish in general. Is there any chance you would list those fish again with their common names? I’m not familiar with all the species nomenclature

Glad to hear a larger tank is on the way.

In english:

1 Citrinellus Butterfly
1 Double Saddle Butterfly
1 Pearlscale Butterfly
1 Rhino Bannerfish
1 Lemonpeel Angel
5 Bartlett's Anthias
1 Royal Gramma
1 Orchid Dottyback
1 Lantern Basslet
1 Rhino Blenny
1 Orange Spot Blenny
1 Yellow Watchman Goby
1 Yellow Headed Sleeper Goby
1 Skunk Tilefish
2 Banggai Cardinal
1 Pajama Cardinal
1 Yellow Tail Neon Damsel
2 Clarkii Clownfish
1 Pink Headed Fairy Wrasse
1 Whipfin Fairy Wrasse
1 Katoi Fairy Wrasse
1 Lubbocks Fairy Wrasse
1 Yellow Flank Fairy Wrasse
1 Yellow Coris Wrasse
1 Cosmetus Wrasse
1 Dusky Wrasse
1 Neon Wrasse
1 Small Tail Pencil Wrasse
1 Yellow Banded Possum Wrasse

Another good example, my 36 gallon bowfront (which isn't finished either). I still plan on adding a few more garden eels and pipefish, probably another Flasher wrasse.

2 Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Royal Flasher Wrasse
1 Blue Flasher Wrasse
2 Blue Mandarin Dragonet
3 Yellow Headed Jawfish
3 Spotted Garden Eel
4 Erectus Seahorse
1 Dragonface Pipefish
1 Janss Pipefish

 

[Jekyl]

I don't understand how everyone can give opinions without a pic of the tank. We need to get away from "all that matters is size" and judge on habitat for fish.

 

[Formulator]

I don't understand how everyone can give opinions without a pic of the tank. We need to get away from "all that matters is size" and judge on habitat for fish.

Good point. Here is a recent FTS. Note - despite the immaturity of most of my coral, the system has been running for almost 9 years. I had a major crash and just renovated the tank and added new frags at the beginning of the year.

 

[mike_mania]

Glad to hear a larger tank is on the way.

In english:

1 Citrinellus Butterfly
1 Double Saddle Butterfly
1 Pearlscale Butterfly
1 Rhino Bannerfish
1 Lemonpeel Angel
5 Bartlett's Anthias
1 Royal Gramma
1 Orchid Dottyback
1 Lantern Basslet
1 Rhino Blenny
1 Orange Spot Blenny
1 Yellow Watchman Goby
1 Yellow Headed Sleeper Goby
1 Skunk Tilefish
2 Banggai Cardinal
1 Pajama Cardinal
1 Yellow Tail Neon Damsel
2 Clarkii Clownfish
1 Pink Headed Fairy Wrasse
1 Whipfin Fairy Wrasse
1 Katoi Fairy Wrasse
1 Lubbocks Fairy Wrasse
1 Yellow Flank Fairy Wrasse
1 Yellow Coris Wrasse
1 Cosmetus Wrasse
1 Dusky Wrasse
1 Neon Wrasse
1 Small Tail Pencil Wrasse
1 Yellow Banded Possum Wrasse

Another good example, my 36 gallon bowfront (which isn't finished either). I still plan on adding a few more garden eels and pipefish, probably another Flasher wrasse.

2 Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Royal Flasher Wrasse
1 Blue Flasher Wrasse
2 Blue Mandarin Dragonet
3 Yellow Headed Jawfish
3 Spotted Garden Eel
4 Erectus Seahorse
1 Dragonface Pipefish
1 Janss Pipefish

This is such a breath of fresh air lol

40 gallon breeder

1- copperband butterfly
1- Tomini tang
1- coral beauty Angel
1- mandarin goby
2- watchmen goby paired
4- red Firefish
1- flame hawkish

 

[Fishfreak2009]

This is such a breath of fresh air lol

40 gallon breeder

1- copperband butterfly
1- Tomini tang
1- coral beauty Angel
1- mandarin goby
2- watchmen goby paired
4- red Firefish
1- flame hawkish

See, I wouldn't keep a copperband or a tomini in a 40breeder though. Not enough lateral swimming space for them imo.

 

[mike_mania]

See, I wouldn't keep a copperband or a tomini in a 40breeder though. Not enough lateral swimming space for them imo.

They are still less than 3”. They seem to swim fine. They dart between the live rock with the angel. They are all model citizens too. Was a little nervous with the CBB and eating. Supplement some live clams (tang and hawkish go nuts for it) and it’s eating frozen mysis. If they get too big my LFS will take em on store credit.

 

[mike_mania]

See, I wouldn't keep a copperband or a tomini in a 40breeder though. Not enough lateral swimming space for them imo.

Think I could add anything else? *scratches neck incessantly*

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Think I could add anything else? *scratches neck incessantly*

To me, ditch the copperband and tang.

I'd add:
3 Blue Dartfish (Ptereleotris heteroptera)
1 Lubbocks Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus lubbocki (Indo variant)
2 Ocellaris or Percula Clownfish
1 Azure Damsel (Chrysiptera hemicyanea)
1 Rolland's Damsel (Chrysiptera rollandi)
1 Talbots Damsel (Chrysiptera talboti)
1 Black Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon negrosensis)

 

[mike_mania]

To me, ditch the copperband and tang.

I'd add:
3 Blue Dartfish (Ptereleotris heteroptera)
1 Lubbocks Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus lubbocki (Indo variant)
2 Ocellaris or Percula Clownfish
1 Azure Damsel (Chrysiptera hemicyanea)
1 Rolland's Damsel (Chrysiptera rollandi)
1 Talbots Damsel (Chrysiptera talboti)
1 Black Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon negrosensis)

Add all those? My LFS will love me lol.

I could understand the copperband, but why the tang? Does it help picking on the rocks or would my CUC be sufficient for that? This is a softie/LPS dominant tank as well.

I’m running a tidal 75 HOB, AQUAMAXX 1.5 hob protein skimmer, 2 wave wavemakers

 

[bangcamaro]

Add all those? My LFS will love me lol.

I could understand the copperband, but why the tang? Does it help picking on the rocks or would my CUC be sufficient for that? This is a softie/LPS dominant tank as well.

I’m running a tidal 75 HOB, AQUAMAXX 1.5 hob protein skimmer, 2 wave wavemakers

Hi! I have a tidal 75 HOB for my 20G tank, was curious to see what you have in the actual HOB as of now?
I am using the stock inserts that seachem provided, i believe the blue floss thing with the matrix stuff? Anything else youre running or reocmmend with it?