I'm bored... advancements in LED

[fredk]

Bored at work tonight. Once a year or so, I poke around the internets to see what's new in the world of LEDs. While not much appears to be changing in the aquarium world, the folks that do lighting for a living are still looking to 'improve' LEDs for more general purpose lighting. Improve used to be about increasing lumins per watt, but these days it looks like things have shifted to improving spectral range and colour rendering.

Nichia has been doing broad spectrum high CRI LEDs for a while now, but it seems other companies are now making progress.

Bridgelux just releases a new series, Thrive, that looks really interesting. They are actually using two blue spectrums, 430 and 480 to put out a very broad spectrum LED. The 5000K version looks like it would be a really good household lighting source.

I wonder though if you could tweak the phosphor coating to let through more of the blue light? Might it actually be possible to create a 12 or 14 or 20K phosphor converted COB?

Hmm, or build them in to a linear array interspersed with some other blue like 420 and 450.

Seoul Semiconductor is doing something similar with their Sunlike line.

Interesting possibilities.

 

[oreo54]

Kyocera:

Kyocera debuts violet-based white and color packaged LEDs, lights Japanese façade

The new Wacoal Holdings building in Kyoto is lit with a mesh of white and color packaged LEDs that are based on a violet emitter or pump, and red, green, and blue phosphors.

www.ledsmagazine.com

SORRA:

Soraa: Simply Perfect Light

We leverage science to produce unparalleled LED light spectrum and quality, bringing nature’s light indoors to make illumination something to see and experience.

www.soraa.com

Doesn't release "chips" and discontinued any K lower than 4000

YuJi

High CRI LED Lighting - Yujileds

High CRI LED Lighting Why CRI is so important? CRI (Color Rendering Index) is a measure of how accurately a light source illuminates objects' true colors. With the development of the LED industry, CRI is cared where the applications need dramatical improvement in the appearance of objects...

www.yujiintl.com

Luminous Devices Still rb pumps but high CRI):

Luminus : COB Arrays - Studio COBs

Luminus LEDs are ideal for demanding applications that require maximum lumen density, efficiency and reliability.

www.luminus.com

Waveform lighting

Ultra High CRI LED Lighting | Waveform Lighting

Upgrade your home or workplace with ultra high CRI LED A19, T8, E26 & more. Our lamps feature CRI 95+ and R9>90. Free USA standard shipping.

www.waveformlighting.com

Bridgelux is sort of "late' and in a sense behind..

Here is the catch as I see it (besides cost)
High CRI or violet pump plus RGB phosphors have a few issues

1)Violet emitters aren't very efficient
2)Blue phosphors w/ intense photons aren't very stable
3)Violet emitters tend to break down easier than say Royal Blue..
4)Phosphors are expensive

Bridgelux "advantage" is to sort of use a compromise between violet pumps (<430) and those going to at least 420.
Not much of a difference though really.

LED advancements drive quality of light gains (MAGAZINE)

GaN-on-GaN LED technology can deliver better light quality in terms of color rendering and accurate bright whites while also providing a lumen-per-wafer advantage over conventional...

www.ledsmagazine.com

Also since either violet based or high CRI blue based take a HIT on efficiency that needed to be increased first before CRI (color rendering) could be done easily.
It can still and is emulated w/ mixed color diodes.. Particularly red , cyan, reg blue and violet additions.

In an idealistic gaze into the crystal ball IF violet emitters can be made that ar high output/efficiency and stable over time AND the "blue phosphor" issue is solved.. Royal blue based emitters will be relegated to the cheapest lighting. I'd go so far as being already heading to extinction but that is optimistic in a profit driven world..

Sure there are other issues ATM but the above should be the primary ones..


Just gets messy so to speak..

 

[Silent]

Waiting for leds to be like tvs. A million little leds like pixels. Would be amazing color blending.

 

[fredk]

Hey Oreo. Figured you might stop by. I knew there were some violet based chips out there, but as you point out, there are still lots of issues.

I don't know what the cost will be like on the bridgelux stuff, but I would have thought that using 430 and 480 nm emitters, the product could would be relatively stable and have a descent working life.

My thinking is that Reef LEDs have hit the wall in terms of price/performance. They rely on multiple narrow band emitters that are not likely to move further down the cost curve. In order for LED lighting to take the next step, it needs to be based off of emitters that are more widely used in higher volume.

Something like the new Bridgelux emitter, because of its broad output and high CRI, could maybe be leveraged to build a lower cost light that meets the desires of the market.

 

[blasterman]

The only reef related development I'd like to see is Cree to forget to add secondary phosphors to some of their XPH 70.2s so we have a 30watt royal in a 7mm^2 package. So tired of screwing around with 3watt LEDs for blue emission but the sky's the limit for white. I begged Bridgelux to make a high powered royal version of their larger arrays but they said the market is simply too narrow to bother to produce one even though it would be cheaper than white LEDs.

The gap between 450-480nm for LEDs has always mystified me because with most conventional LED lighting tech moving to matrix style arrays all you have to do is add some 470-480nm LEDs at low power to fill in the gap, and then you have a true, 100 CRI light source that would rival plasma sulfur or blue filtered halogen. The general lighitng market though seem more concerned about absolute efficacy numbers and low cost than anything else.

 

[oreo54]

Diodes are already cheap. Even the best (barring some exotics) are 50 cents a watt retail..
"3W" Luxeon Z's in bulk retail are $1.23 for up to "3w" of output... 550mW radiant power @ 1.4W

Point is you are paying the most money for "support" electronics and housings..


Desires or the market or the marketers..???

 

[oreo54]

The only reef related development I'd like to see is Cree to forget to add secondary phosphors to some of their XPH 70.2s so we have a 30watt royal in a 7mm^2 package. So tired of screwing around with 3watt LEDs for blue emission but the sky's the limit for white. I begged Bridgelux to make a high powered royal version of their larger arrays but they said the market is simply too narrow to bother to produce one even though it would be cheaper than white LEDs.

The gap between 450-480nm for LEDs has always mystified me because with most conventional LED lighting tech moving to matrix style arrays all you have to do is add some 470-480nm LEDs at low power to fill in the gap, and then you have a true, 100 CRI light source that would rival plasma sulfur or blue filtered halogen. The general lighitng market though seem more concerned about absolute efficacy numbers and low cost than anything else.

Whats wrong w/ the Citizens Royal blue COB's?
https://www.rapidled.com/citizen-royal-blue-cob-clu048-1212cf-b455/

These used to be a great buy @ about $5 each..

5x 45W LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue 16up 450nm High Power Led Emitter | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5x 45W LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue 16up 450nm High Power Led Emitter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Bpb]

The 5000K version looks like it would be a really good household lighting

5000k for home lighting? Gross. 2700k or bust. The led bulbs that mimic incandescent or Edison bulbs are where it’s at.

 

[fredk]

5000k for home lighting? Gross. 2700k or bust. The led bulbs that mimic incandescent or Edison bulbs are where it’s at.

2700k for home lighting? Yuck. Give me something approaching natural daylight rather than a yellow-orange incandescent look-alikes.

 

[fredk]

Diodes are already cheap. Even the best (barring some exotics) are 50 cents a watt retail..
"3W" Luxeon Z's in bulk retail are $1.23 for up to "3w" of output... 550mW radiant power @ 1.4W

Point is you are paying the most money for "support" electronics and housings..


Desires or the market or the marketers..???

Not cheap enough. Even in the greenhouse industry where volumes are much higher, cost is still an issue.

Reefbreeders/Evergrow are getting close to the sweet spot price wise. They still use red and green diodes though. I also have no idea what the binning/quality of their LEDs are though.

 

[blasterman]

Whats wrong w/ the Citizens Royal blue COB's?
https://www.rapidled.com/citizen-royal-blue-cob-clu048-1212cf-b455/

These used to be a great buy @ about $5 each..

5x 45W LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue 16up 450nm High Power Led Emitter | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5x 45W LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue 16up 450nm High Power Led Emitter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The citizens are just an array of a jillion low powered SMD royals crammed onto 28mm x 28mm die. This makes them irritating if not impossible to lens (you have to use a reflector), and there's no practical way to match them coherently with a more typical white LED unless you use another citizen...which I don't know why you would. When I tried to compare the published radiometrics of citizen royal to an XPG3 royal they didn't favor to well either in terms of efficiency. Basically, the only reason anybody uses the citizens is because Cree won't make a royal bigger than an XPG3, and that's a crime.

 

[blasterman]

Not cheap enough. Even in the greenhouse industry where volumes are much higher, cost is still an issue.

Reefbreeders/Evergrow are getting close to the sweet spot price wise. They still use red and green diodes though. I also have no idea what the binning/quality of their LEDs are though.

I've done some large commercial projects with Philips Fortimo line arrays. They are a fraction the price per out-put watt of any chinese fixture and don't require heat sinking. Large scale horticulture tens to shy away from box type LED fixtures anyways.

 

[oreo54]

5000k for home lighting? Gross. 2700k or bust. The led bulbs that mimic incandescent or Edison bulbs are where it’s at.

Yea but that depends on your "style"..
They are cool though..

The citizens are just an array of a jillion low powered SMD royals crammed onto 28mm x 28mm die. This makes them irritating if not impossible to lens (you have to use a reflector), and there's no practical way to match them coherently with a more typical white LED unless you use another citizen...which I don't know why you would. When I tried to compare the published radiometrics of citizen royal to an XPG3 royal they didn't favor to well either in terms of efficiency. Basically, the only reason anybody uses the citizens is because Cree won't make a royal bigger than an XPG3, and that's a crime.

Per Ledil or Carlco (forgot which) Reflectors in the 80-120 degree range are better anyways..
Lumileds made the k16 in royal blue. The "Toshiba" OEM version is still available as surplus.

As to Citizens they got in trouble for lying about their CRI if I remember correctly..
Only point was there are (is a ) rb COB..
suppose should include the million on eek bay .


all COB's are an array..

If remote phosphors would have caught on more this wouldn't be an issue I suspect.

https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/Remote-Phosphor.pdf

To be honest, surprised Luxeon didn't offer a "just blue" COB in their hort collection..

LUXEON SunPlus CoB Line

LUXEON SunPlus CoB Line LEDs are purpose-built to enable ease of system design for Horticulture applications. LUXEON SunPlus CoB Line offers the...

www.lumileds.com

 

[fredk]

I've done some large commercial projects with Philips Fortimo line arrays. They are a fraction the price per out-put watt of any chinese fixture and don't require heat sinking. Large scale horticulture tens to shy away from box type LED fixtures anyways.

Because they are produced in volume. That is why the new Bridgelux line piqued my interest. If only the blue output were higher. You could combine it with a Luxion Freshfocus fish to get very broad spectrum blue output with no cyan/green hole and maybe no need for more red supplementation.