I totally get turning them off for a couple of hours after you add bottle bacteria, but does anyone know the rationale for turning them off for the cycle? Does it actually matter? (not planning on being a maverick, just curious)
If bacteria live on rock, why are all the recommendations to remove filter socks/turn off skimmers during cycling/after adding bottle bacteria?
- Thread starter lmfbs
- Start date
Yes, you don't want all the bacteria skimmed or filtered away. This is more an issue with the skimmer and less with filter socks. The supplements can also cause skimmers to go nuts and foam over.
Because you add them to the water column and need to give the bacteria time to get onto surfaces. Leaving the skimmer on would increase the possibility some is removed before it can settle on a surface
OP
OP
So does that suggest that turning them off for a couple of hours after you add them, rather than the whole cycle would be fine?
Ideally you want to leave your skimmer off during the entire cycle to cultivate ALL the bacterial chain in the nitrogen cycle.
Every nutrient should be used by the bacteria, and not brought out of the loop by foam fractionation.
Typically people stop at Nitrate, but there's no reason a tank cannot cultivate the anoxic denitrifying bacteria that convert nitrate to free nitrogen early.
Why run a skimmer during the cycle? The only way I could see it being beneficial is when using ocean direct liverock...it would help remove some of the die off from the water column.
OP
OP
Thanks! This really makes sense to me.
My question was 'why not' not 'why'. I don't have a reason to do it, I'm just interested in the rationale of why, if the science we all accept is the bacteria lives on surfaces (rocks, glass, sand) and not so much in the water column, why it's so important that they all mention it.
OP
OP
Sometimes that's how I feel about this hobby. We do it like this because we always have. And I'm as good as the next person at following the rules if I know why there are rules there in the first place!
Nitrifying bacteria do not attach to surfaces immediately. I studied this two ways.
In one experiment, I inoculated 2 L of Instant Ocean and 0.5 ppm NH3 in an acrylic container. Rather than forming a slime layer, the bacteria formed a floc, or fluffy dust on the bottom of the container that was easily suspended.
In the second experiment, I added clean aragonite sand to a 2 L acrylic container along with Instant Ocean and ammonia. In this experiment, I measured and compared the ammonia consumption rate of the entire container and that of a sample of the sand. Initially, ammonia consumption of the sand did not match that of the container until around 10 days. I propose that the sampling process disturbed the bacteria that were only loosely associated with the sand early in the process. The sample when tested did not contain ammonia oxidizing bacteria. By day 10 the bacteria were firmly attached to the sand and the sand sample showed similar ammonia oxidizing capacity as the entire container.
here's my take
those warnings + heeded actions begin the doubt in what water bacteria do/can do in water
the summation effect is you'll buy more bacteria out of some type of doubt one day.
proof: this is forty pages of bottle bac cycling, and not only do I not care if they run those things, I encourage that they do so we can then still post an exact start date they'll be cycled and ready/showing the truth in non sales based updated cycling science: water bacteria in water will be fine after day ten wait, in any normal arrangement we attempt.
for sure the bacteria they sell are floc mode/aggregates, and they want them dispersed vs caught
www.reef2reef.com
but the truth is: that doesn't matter. no cycle will be stalled in breaking those rules.
those warnings + heeded actions begin the doubt in what water bacteria do/can do in water
the summation effect is you'll buy more bacteria out of some type of doubt one day.
proof: this is forty pages of bottle bac cycling, and not only do I not care if they run those things, I encourage that they do so we can then still post an exact start date they'll be cycled and ready/showing the truth in non sales based updated cycling science: water bacteria in water will be fine after day ten wait, in any normal arrangement we attempt.
for sure the bacteria they sell are floc mode/aggregates, and they want them dispersed vs caught
How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle
non digital ammonia test kit readings make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status, since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the majority understand when they’re cycled...
www.reef2reef.com
but the truth is: that doesn't matter. no cycle will be stalled in breaking those rules.
if bottle bac sellers could only sell you 1 bottle at a time, their revenue stream would drop by 2/3rds
fear, doubt, inserted stumbling blocks are what keep the lion's share of sales going.
notice this trend above: who did I ever tell to buy a second bottle
for forty pages, its one bottle, one exact start date given the instant they post, and then apparently happy reef tanks as many pages as we want to track it.
fear, doubt, inserted stumbling blocks are what keep the lion's share of sales going.
notice this trend above: who did I ever tell to buy a second bottle
for forty pages, its one bottle, one exact start date given the instant they post, and then apparently happy reef tanks as many pages as we want to track it.
OP
OP
Oh I'm so pleased you responded! I've been reading your cycling threads as I started reefing in the days of 'a cycle takes months, bottle bac is a scam/doesn't work, cycling is a delicate and fussy thing', but these threads are really changing my mind. I've got some clouding from not perfectly rinsing my sand, and was absently wondering if turning on my filter roller would help it out (almost definitely), but having read the bottle of the bacteria I'm using (Microbacter XLM), it says to remove filter socks and turn off the skimmer during the cycle.here's my take
those warnings + heeded actions begin the doubt in what water bacteria do/can do in water
the summation effect is you'll buy more bacteria out of some type of doubt one day.
proof: this is forty pages of bottle bac cycling, and not only do I not care if they run those things, I encourage that they do so we can then still post an exact start date they'll be cycled and ready/showing the truth in non sales based updated cycling science: water bacteria in water will be fine after day ten wait, in any normal arrangement we attempt.
for sure the bacteria they sell are floc mode/aggregates, and they want them dispersed vs caught
How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle
non digital ammonia test kit readings make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status, since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the majority understand when they’re cycled...
but the truth is: that doesn't matter. no cycle will be stalled in breaking those rules.
It makes sense to remove/turn this stuff off for a while after adding, but it's currently day 3 and I'm already seeing some nitrate so I don't think there's anything short of emptying the tank that I can do to mess up the cycle now.
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