Ich/Velvet Question - Please Help

[vgliha]

I have officially done the Newbie Mistake...I have accidentally introduced Ich into my tank. I did not know that invertebrates were carriers until it was too late and did not quarantine some hermits and coral frags. Now, two weeks later, my fish have either Ich or Velvet.

I have 2 options available:

1. I can remove the few pieces of live rock we have corals on, take out the Coral Banded Shrimp, the 4 hermits and the snails and put them in a 10 gallon Quarantine tank for the next 2 1/2 months and treat my 72 gallon display tank (which I'm battling an Aptasia outbreak on at the moment )

2. Remove my Yellow Tang, 2 Clownfish, Yellow Tail Damsel, Neon Dottyback and Watchman Goby and put *them* in my 10 gallon quarantine tank and treat that tank while letting my display tank go fallow.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Ideas? I'm new to Saltwater Fish and Reef Tanks. I transferred from being a freshwater girl and I officially feel like I'm in over my head because my research didn't tell me about invertebrates carrying Ich or Velvet.

 

[Dr Jimmy]

I'm not sure those fish would do well in a 10 gallon tank. Plus, not cycled, correct? I'm doing tank transfer right now to deal with ich, but I only have a few small fish.

 

[vgliha]

I'm not sure those fish would do well in a 10 gallon tank. Plus, not cycled, correct? I'm doing tank transfer right now to deal with ich, but I only have a few small fish.

Correct with not being cycled. All of the fish are babies with the exception of the Tang and Damsel. So I know daily water changes of 20-50% are in my future if I put all of them in my 10 gallon.

If I treat the main tank, would the treatment hurt the live rock and live sand microorganisms?

 

[nereefpat]

Any pics? Let's see if we can decide what you're dealing with.

If it's velvet, your fish will need copper ASAP. If ich, you have some options.

 

[vgliha]

Any pics? Let's see if we can decide what you're dealing with.

If it's velvet, your fish will need copper ASAP. If ich, you have some options.

Here is a picture of my Damsel. It's the darkest fish that has some spots on it's fins so I figured it would be the best one to try and diagnose.

 

[Reeffragger]

Damsels will never die from ich that almost 100% there so i wouldnt worry about the damsels. If you had velvet the other fish would be dead in days. 24-72 hours.

Ich is slow and sometimes you only see a fee spots and then nothing. For example i have ich in my 135g and i have 4 tangs. A foxface. 3 dwarf angels. 2 dottybacks. 3 wrasses and a copper band butterfly.

I never see ich on any of my tangs which are a yellow. Sailfin, tomini, blond naso. I only see it on the tail of my coppeeband sometimes. Or the tail of my flame angel.

Now in the past i had ich and velvet. And i lost 800$ in fish. They all died and i was a newbie so i kept buying new fish and theyd all die in days.. riddled in thousands of small dots.

I decided to do hyposalinity at 1.007 for 2 months. Then copper IN hypo for 3 weeks after. And after i did this i never saw ich or velvet for near a year.

Then like you i added hermits and i forgot to qt the .. ich showed up.. But it only was constantly affecting my powder brown tang.. but then he came a ich breeding machine and eventually my ich numbers just got too high.. So i did hypo again but only for 30 days.. My mistake.. ich came back.. and on the powder brown again..

So what i did was take my powder brown out.. and hes ina smaller tank by himself in hyposalinity. The tank still has ich but like i said i never see it anymore. It was the powder brown who was making it jist explode in my tank.

Im frankly tired of moving 60-70 corals abd treating the main tsnk for months.. seems ive spent 4 months of a year treating for it.. So now i just manage it.. but i do nothing special to manage it.. i just never seen it so either my fish habe become immune to it or it was taking the powder brown out that helped i think taking the fish out is what did it.


For you... Unless you see ich exploding on your fish.. I would jusy manage it. Damsels and clownfish are fairly resistant to it. Cept maybe in the rear tail. So just watch the others. Again if it was velvet youd have fish covered like this.


If you do want to treat the problem. Then take the snails cravs whatever out and put those in your 10g tank with some sand and a rock or two from the tank so itll be cycled. Then treat the main tank with copper. And no copper does not leach and stay in rock or sand despite what some people believe. Ive done it in my 135g twice and i have 70+ corals in the tank.. just use activated carbon to get it all out when youre done. But yes it does kill stuff in the tank.. bacteria will be fine but you might see a amall ammonia spike for a bit.. DONT use prime though. That 10g is just not big enough to house that many fish for 4-6 weeks.

If you can get a 20g thatd be better

Now the only issue with treating is ich can live up to 30-40+ days.. and most treatments call for only 4 weeks. Like i said i did hypo for 30 days and it came back.. but the first time i did hypo it was for 2 months and it didnt come back.

Ich is just a real ******* parasite. I think alot of people quit thr hobby because of it.. pic below is velvet.. fish yellow eye kole tang died in 3 days of me buying it

 

[vgliha]

I noticed white spots on the fins and tail of my yellow tang last week and I thought I was seeing things. Now my one clown has a dot on his dorsal fin, my Damsel has the white spots on his side fins and tail and all of my fish, especially the Neon Dottyback, are "itching" themselves on everything in the tank, gills especially. The itching and spots on other fish I began to notice Monday evening.

I'm worried that managing Ich will have me wasting money on fish that can't handle the parasite load established in the tank and they'll just die. But I'm also worried that trying to keep Ich out of my tank is a fools endeavor. I'm at a loss and I don't know what to do. Part of me feels like taking out my tiny collection of corals, my shrimp and my hermits is the easiest route to an Ich free tank but I'm worried adding copper to my tank will harm the live rock and disrupt my tank's biology.

 

[Reeffragger]

Wont harm anything.. itll kill inverts or other stuff on the rocks or sand.. but it wont STAY in the sand or rocks.. utter bs myth that keeps spreading around.. I have 150lbs of rock and 150lbs of sand nearly in my tank.. If copper was in my rocks my 6000$ in corals wouldnt be alive.

Youre only other option is getting a bigger qt tabk.. move sand and rocks into it so its cycled. And treat the fish with copper in there and let the main tank go fallow for 60 days.. i wont recomend 30 days to anyone based on it coming back for me

 

[vgliha]

I think I'm going to get a reef light for a nano tank for my 10 gallon, get my spare powerhead in there too and then move the live rock some corals are attached to, the corals that are just on frags and the shrimp and hermits. That way we can enjoy the main tank with the fish in it. They won't be stressed being smooshed together in a 10 gallon and I can take the time to beef up my corals for the next two and a half months before I move them back into the main tank. After this, everything gets quarantined for a month minimum before anything goes in the main tank. I never want to deal with this ever again if I can help it. I can understand why Ich can make hobbiests dry out there tanks for good. I've dealt with fin rot, Velvet, Popeye and Ich during my time owning freshwater tanks. I didn't realize it was so easy to accidentally introduce this stupid stubborn parasite into a freaking Saltwater Tank.

 

[xtian]

Years ago before I had to shut down my systems for a move, I used SeaChem MetroPlex mixed in with fish food and garlic guard to treat ich and it worked. I didn’t lose any coral, fish, or inverts.

 

[nereefpat]

I think I'm going to get a reef light for a nano tank for my 10 gallon, get my spare powerhead in there too and then move the live rock some corals are attached to, the corals that are just on frags and the shrimp and hermits.

Going to try hypo in the display then?

 

[Dr Jimmy]

I will also say, I didn't like copper in the DT. It just sucked up all the copper I threw at it. 3 days in, no measurable copper at 20x dosage recommended on bottle for tank size. I'm sure it's all in the sand and rock. I pulled everything out and am doing tank transfer while setting up the sump and drilling the DT.

 

[Reeffragger]

It might do that but it wont STAY in the rocks or sand forever is what i ment.. Itll be gone in a week with carbon in the filters.

You can do hypo or copper.. but hypo and that neon dottyback wont agree.. i had one and certain fish like dottybacks. Butterflies. Wrasses and some gobies and SOME dwarf angels dont like hypo.

Tangs and damsels. Some angels.. and hawkfish and foxfaces and so forth can handle hypo easy

 

[jda]

I would not do anything at the moment unless the fish are covered. If there is just a spot here or there, then keep feeding them well and keep the stress free. Moving them and treating will likely finish them off if you start too soon - even if you are going to go fallow, then wait for them to heal up and stuff.

There are many ways to manage ich. Now that you know that you let it in, I might suggest a pack of real ocean live rock from someplace like Tampa Bay Saltwater, or the like, and get the microfauna and stuff into your tank that keeps ich at bay. Unfortunately, tanks started with dry/dead rock are petri dishes for diseases since they are barren of the life that would otherwise eat them and keep the numbers very, very low. Just imagine how long some ich tomonts last in a tank with all different types of pods, starfish, bacteria, filter feeders, sand stirrers, etc. You have always heard that fish do better without disease in "mature" tanks and most think that it is stability, but this is why - they are loaded with life that will chow down and consume anything that it can.

 

[vgliha]

I spent all day getting my 10 gallon set up, moved the invertebrates in there, minus the hermits. I only found 1 after tearing the whole tank apart.

I didn't start with a from-scratch tank. I acquired an already established one from a hobbyist that had his tank for 20 years and was looking to get out of it. With the Aptasia issue, the corals that we're still alive looking half dead compared to how they look now in my care and some of the equipment we had to repair, I'd put money on the tank having Ich and I inherited his headache. Moving the tank stressed out the fish and all other the work I've been doing to make sure I have a healthy tank may have resulted in an Ich outbreak.

I'm so new to Saltwater that I'm terrified to do anything that has to do with changing the salinity of the tank. I think I'd rather do a copper-based treatment and keep the inverts separated from the main tank for the next 2 months. Any tips on what brand/type of treatment to buy that has had a high success rate?

Pics of current tank situation.

 

[nereefpat]

I'm so new to Saltwater that I'm terrified to do anything that has to do with changing the salinity of the tank. I think I'd rather do a copper-based treatment and keep the inverts separated from the main tank for the next 2 months. Any tips on what brand/type of treatment to buy that has had a high success rate?

Never would I ever recommend using copper in a display tank that has rock and sand.

Chloroquine would work well, if you can get it.

I would do hypo. It isn't that scary.

 

[vetteguy53081]

As small as tank is, i would move fish instead of coral. If you move coral, eventually they will have to return to the treated in tank in which chemicals were used

 

[gabrieltackitt]

So the biggest problem in using copper in a tank with rock and sand is the absorption. Not leeching later absorption. To truly beat ich you have to keep copper at therapeutic levels for 30 days minimum and live rock and sand will absorb copper very readily and you will have to continually check and redose the copper to keep it at therapeutic level and if it ever goes below that level then you MUST start the 30 days over.

As far as the corals and inverts, anything that can’t withstand a copper treatment for ich/velvet must undergo 76 day’s of QT/Fallow(fishless), that is how long it takes for all of the ich encrusted to hatch and die off, any shorter than that and you may run the risk of reintroducing Ich right back into the system.

This is the most tried and true method and I will never do any less than that. If you want to beat it once and for all I would pick up a second tank, throw some PVC elbows and tees for hiding spots, and split the fish up between the two and add copper into both, no live rock, just a HOB/sponge filter seeded from the main tank or with bottled bacteria, dose it up to therapeutic levels and with nothing to absorb and keep it there for 30 days, fallow the main tank for 76 days minimum before reintroducing fish a few at a time into the main tank.

 

[Reeffragger]

Never would I ever recommend using copper in a display tank that has rock and sand.

Chloroquine would work well, if you can get it.

I would do hypo. It isn't that scary.

If youve never done full hypo dont recomend it to someone with fish that cant handle it. Neon dottybacks and gobies dont like true hypo at 1.007-1.009 trust me ive done hypo for years and i know which species can and cannot handle it.

Wrasses. Dottybacks. Royal grammas. Gobis. Flame angels. Butterflies will balloon up lile pinecones like dropsy and die. . Also copper again wont stay in the rock or sand after a good week of activated carbon itll be gone.

Hypo is deff much easier to do.. and copper can kill too. But that dottyback and goby will have to go through tank transfer or copper the other fish will be fine

This tank went through copper twice.. Im 100% confident it wont linger.. it hasnt for me or other people. There isa guy on youtube who made a video progression of it to show people it doesnt. I firgot his name off hand.. but yea

 

[Dr Jimmy]

I had issues with copper in the DT. Namely putting in 10x the stated dose with zero reading.