I purchased a Blue Tang -- Big mistake but not the end the world

Zigma · Feb 20, 2022

I got into the hobby about a month ago and unfortunately (fortunately?) I got a bit carried away and now I need to upgrade.

I started out with a 13.5 gallon salt water evo, skimmer, basically went the whole 9. 2 clown fish, anemone, 2 cleaner shrimps, a fire Shrimp, some snails, a sea orchid, a yellowhead jawfish, schooner dragonet. Oh, I also have a palm palm crab in the mix.

I do not mix my own water, I use Imagitarium Pacific Ocean Water since day 1 and purchase 10 gallons of it weekly for my water changes Every 7 days, and about a 20% water change every 2 days.

Salinity is always at 1.026 and params are always great. I purchased the a blue tang today to complete a total of 5 beautiful fish. I think I made a mistake... I did not know that blue tangs would get so big.. right now, it's a juvenile -- very small but I know he or she will quickly grow to be a majestic beast -- and that's OK!! At work, we have massive reef aquariums throughout our floors so rehoming it once it gets too big is not a problem. I plan on purchasing a Red Sea/Waterbox 55-65g AIO setup sometime next month where I can continue this amazing hobby. I can safely say that in a years time, he/she will likely be going into one of the many one of the 1000+ gallon reefs we have at work.

Now, The problem with the blue tang is that I as soon as I acclimated him and put him/her in -- I noticed white spots ... ugh, yeah -- ich... ouch. I feed my fish the good stuff. Mysa shrimp, Brine shrimp, both life (I hatch them myself) and frozen, pellets, basically I try to give them a gourmet.

So this tang has ich. Unfortunately I did not spot it when I picked him/her up at Petco. The lighting there did not reveal the spots until I got home. I am very worried about my other stock which my wife and I have grown incredibly attached to. I know they are healthy enough to "fight it" I do not have a tank hospital to treat the tang and even if I go and purchase a setup tomorrow I am afraid it will be too late and the ich most likely has spread. So I have to make due with this problem.

My goal is to avoid any type of chemicals that can potentially reek havoc in my tank. I have an amazing collection of corals that will most likely be affected by any type of chemicals that I throw in there to help fight this. So, outside of meticulous water changes -- continuing to keep the tank sparkling clean, feeding them to keep the strong, is there anything else I can do?

Close to 5am and I cannot sleep. Super worried about all my little guys. Maybe I am overreacting and it could have been stress that caused this little dory to break out? We will see.

Thank you,

Zig

blaxsun · Feb 20, 2022

There's not a lot of options for safe in-tank treatment, but you can try Polyp Lab Medic. I've had good success (100%j with velvet and ich, but I also caught it right away and I run an oversized UV on my setup as well. Others have indicated that it can be hit and miss, so I think a lot of factors come into play, ie: how quickly you catch it, overall health of the reef, how healthy the fish are, etc.

If you decide to go this route, do visit the Polyp Lab website and follow the instructions to a tee. You need to remove any carbon (or disable it) for the duration of treatment and you also need to turn any UV off for an hour after each dose. Best of luck.

Drumstin · Feb 20, 2022

I wouldn’t be so sure your other fish are healthy enough to fight it. I’d spin up a cheap hospital tank asap. I had to do this before and only saved a few. Turned that into a QT and religiously quarantine now after having to go fishless in my main tank 75days twice in this hobby. Don’t trust any fish no matter how good they look and anything from petco is going to be very risky in my experience.

Lyss · Feb 20, 2022

I’m trying to understand here…

How long has that tank been up and running and cycled? Only a month?

At one month in I had one tailspot blenny in my tank, then a clown pair two weeks later, a basic CUC two weeks later, and nothing more for a few months. Shrimp and conch came after 6 months.

I would take the tang back b/c even if you upgrade, the size tank you’re talking about upgrading to still isn’t enough. Your tank is way overstocked, which is why you gotta do so many water changes. I would invest in an RODI unit ASAP and start making your own water. Can’t even imagine the expense of buying so much of that boxed seawater.

threebuoys · Feb 20, 2022

Your best bet is to take the tang back, tell them they sold you a sick fish, then spend some time doing more research, stabilize your tank, and pray that the other fish did not become infected.

The temptation to buy expensive, beautiful fish which are challenging to care for is enormous, but must be resisted for setups like yours.

You will have a difficult time if you expect to be able to successfully navigate this hobby with such a small tank, no QT capabilities, and no chemicals. Choose the hardiest small fish you can find. Be certain that everything is under control. That will require months, not weeks of effort.

blaxsun · Feb 20, 2022

4 small fish in a 13.5 gallon isn't unrealistic. Yes, the tang probably wasn't a good choice - but hopefully OP can return it to Petco for a refund (considering it was sick).

Zigma · Feb 20, 2022

It seems like lady luck is on my side. I just woke up and the the tang is looking healthy and does not have the visible spots like the previous say. It still does not mean that it wasn't ich. I would go the safer route and I am going to assume it is/was. Hopefully I am lucky. Lesson learned though. I try to give a response to all of you now but, please, Let's play nice. I am 100% open to criticism but I won't tolerate rudeness. I have many options for advice and I should have exercised that before jumping into without rational thinking. I want to be part of a wonderful community that I can share this hobby with. We're all adults, Let's act like it.

blaxsun said:
There's not a lot of options for safe in-tank treatment, but you can try Polyp Lab Medic. I've had good success (100%j with velvet and ich, but I also caught it right away and I run an oversized UV on my setup as well. Others have indicated that it can be hit and miss, so I think a lot of factors come into play, ie: how quickly you catch it, overall health of the reef, how healthy the fish are, etc.

If you decide to go this route, do visit the Polyp Lab website and follow the instructions to a tee. You need to remove any carbon (or disable it) for the duration of treatment and you also need to turn any UV off for an hour after each dose. Best of luck.

Appreciate your response! I think I feel comfortable giving this a shot. Let me see if I can pick this up today at my LFS. Basically, remove the Carbon that I have in the filter, turn the lights off and let this thing do it's thing. I'll read more about this.

Lyss said:
I’m trying to understand here…

How long has that tank been up and running and cycled? Only a month?

At one month in I had one tailspot blenny in my tank, then a clown pair two weeks later, a basic CUC two weeks later, and nothing more for a few months. Shrimp and conch came after 6 months.

I would take the tang back b/c even if you upgrade, the size tank you’re talking about upgrading to still isn’t enough. Your tank is way overstocked, which is why you gotta do so many water changes. I would invest in an RODI unit ASAP and start making your own water. Can’t even imagine the expense of buying so much of that boxed seawater.

Yah... Rookie mistake. Lesson learned. I don't think I can take the tang back. I believe that if I do, it won't get the treatment that It needs. Now, I just woke up and saw that the tang is doing much better. The spots are basically gone. Maybe it was due to stress? I'm not sure but I am still going to keep to my guns and assume it's ich or something. I do not want to slack off on it. I have RODI water that I keep in a jug and I use it for rinsing. The only drawback to the boxed water is the fact that it's heavy -- but 2 boxes of 5 gallon seawater is not too expensive. It's about 20 bucks each. I can see how it can add up over time, fortunately it's not a big dent but you are correct. I will make an effort to correct this!

threebuoys said:
Your best bet is to take the tang back, tell them they sold you a sick fish, then spend some time doing more research, stabilize your tank, and pray that the other fish did not become infected.

The temptation to buy expensive, beautiful fish which are challenging to care for is enormous, but must be resisted for setups like yours.

You will have a difficult time if you expect to be able to successfully navigate this hobby with such a small tank, no QT capabilities, and no chemicals. Choose the hardiest small fish you can find. Be certain that everything is under control. That will require months, not weeks of effort.

100% correct! Thank you! This current setup is going to be eventually be my QT tank. The options that I am looking at are along the lines of a Red Sea MAX E Mode or the Waterbox AIO 65.4 AIO. As soon as I find something I like and it comes in I will start to move the corals etc in there and have it cycle before I put anything in. Once I have every piece of coral in there, I'll start to disinfect/do what I have to do to make sure that the current fish I have are healthy before transferring them over. It will most likely take weeks before they move in. I think that's the best route I can think of unless someone can guide me in a better direction.

It would be nice to be able to keep this tang for about 6 months before I move him into one of the other bigger tanks at work -- where he could be significantly happy -- but of course I won't do that if it is sick. We will see. Not worth assuming anything yet. Let's all be thankful that I have an end game here.

threebuoys · Feb 20, 2022

I should have also said WELCOME to R2R!

I know it's tough jumping into an advice forum when you have a serious issue like the one you raised. You will find a wealth of information here, one of the best forums I've visited. Definitely fewer trolls than most, but sometimes easy for reactions that can be testy to say the least.

I highly recommend you read as many of the stickies as you can, particularly the one about how to provide information to help others evaluate your situation before giving advice to you.

Good luck!

ying yang · Feb 20, 2022

I dont qt but what I know about ich parasites is they have different life stages/ cycles and one of them is attach to a fish then they drop off fish so looks like fish hasn't got ich no more but then the now ich cysts are in your sand and rocks then comes the free swimming stage of ich and attaches to other fish in the tank .
Dumbed down version of ich cycles but basically it,this why when ich in tank its either ich management with uv and feeding well aslong as tank not overstocked so stresses fish out then they get less healthy so less immune so more likely ich attaches to them again and so on or full ich eradication and remove all fish and treat with Ttm or hyposalinity or copper all in seperate tank / tanks without inverts/ corals ovbiously then let tank run fallow with ho fish so ich dies off as bo host.
Anyway won't tell you what others have said as think you understand most of it and not nice lots saying all same thing if get me and once again I don't qt but if fish was struggling with a diesese then I would step up and do what's needed which sort of sounds like you plan to do so good luck ^_^

Zigma · Feb 20, 2022

threebuoys said:
I should have also said WELCOME to R2R!

I know it's tough jumping into an advice forum when you have a serious issue like the one you raised. You will find a wealth of information here, one of the best forums I've visited. Definitely fewer trolls than most, but sometimes easy for reactions that can be testy to say the least.

I highly recommend you read as many of the stickies as you can, particularly the one about how to provide information to help others evaluate your situation before giving advice to you.

Good luck!

Thank you!

My anemone is deflating/inflating and I do not want to post a picture with it being deflated

Fun fact, the two clown fish I have have been hosted by it and it's such a wonderful sight to see.

As far as money, I respectfully ask that we do not talk about that. I am being honest at what I have and do but I also do not like to talk too much about finances -- how expensive something is can be relative from person to person. Is that fair?

After the laundry is done around the house I am going to go to the my LFS and see if they have anything in stock that I can get delivered. Maybe I'll get lucky and they have a redsea/waterbox/AIO tucked away in the back of the store that I can pick up accelerate this pickle that I am in -- doubt it though. The supply chain fiasco we're all in is a pain.

Zigma · Feb 20, 2022

ying yang said:
I dont qt but what I know about ich parasites is they have different life stages/ cycles and one of them is attach to a fish then they drop off fish so looks like fish hasn't got ich no more but then the now ich cysts are in your sand and rocks then comes the free swimming stage of ich and attaches to other fish in the tank .
Dumbed down version of ich cycles but basically it,this why when ich in tank its either ich management with uv and feeding well aslong as tank not overstocked so stresses fish out then they get less healthy so less immune so more likely ich attaches to them again and so on or full ich eradication and remove all fish and treat with Ttm or hyposalinity or copper all in seperate tank / tanks without inverts/ corals ovbiously then let tank run fallow with ho fish so ich dies off as bo host.
Anyway won't tell you what others have said as think you understand most of it and not nice lots saying all same thing if get me and once again I don't qt but if fish was struggling with a diesese then I would step up and do what's needed which sort of sounds like you plan to do so good luck ^_^

Right!! That's exactly correct! Maybe they have fallen off and the fish looks healthy but it's a matter of time!! A ticking time bomb!!
The little guys in the tank all seem to be doing fine. No illness/sick symptoms and I want to make sure it stays that way. One thing I learned is that if something requires attention then it's best to get ahead of it before letting it get to the point where your back is up against the wall/you are too far gone to do anything about it!!

Lyss · Feb 20, 2022

Zigma said:
Thank you!

I will post a picture soon enough! Give me a little time. My anemone is deflating/inflating and I do not want to post a picture with it being deflated

Fun fact, the two clown fish I have have been hosted by it and it's such a wonderful sight to see.

As far as money, I respectfully ask that we do not talk about that. I am being honest at what I have and do but I also do not like to talk too much about finances -- how expensive something is can be relative from person to person. Is that fair?

After the laundry is done around the house I am going to go to the my LFS and see if they have anything in stock that I can get delivered. Maybe I'll get lucky and they have a redsea/waterbox/AIO tucked away in the back of the store that I can pick up accelerate this pickle that I am in -- doubt it though. The supply chain fiasco we're all in is a pain.

The best investment you can make for your tank and any future tanks is an RODI unit. That is just good advice, and anyone here would give you that.

While I can appreciate you setting boundaries about what you will or won’t talk about, if you want to seek advice and take the animal husbandry seriously, you’ll also need to be prepared to hear what others have to say, even if the truth isn’t always pretty.

thatmanMIKEson · Feb 20, 2022

If you don't have sand you should be able to beat ich

ying yang · Feb 20, 2022

Apparently you guys in America at petco or something have dollar a gallon sale sometimes so can pick a 20 or 30 gallon for £20 or £30 if there's one on at moment or can even use a plastic box or bucket as temporary qt at a push with heater if needed and some flow and keep eye on Amnonia and little Internal filter with bottle bacteria kind of thing, doesn't need be complicated but imo a qt tank that looks more like a normal display tank is better but beware if using copper and rocks but can use some inert bricks or plastic and some plastic plants or the like

Danroo · Feb 20, 2022

Thing with tang is that they need a bigger tank to make a best of their lives. I just learned that they live more in the wild compared to in our tanks. While clowns live more in captivity. So I feel like it’s bare minimum to give these poor fish bare minimum that is a 100+ gallon tank. Plus I saw you have a anemone in a 1 month old tank. Thats also not a good thing.

Zigma · Feb 20, 2022

Lyss said:
The best investment you can make for your tank and any future tanks is an RODI unit. That is just good advice, and anyone here would give you that.

While I can appreciate you setting boundaries about what you will or won’t talk about, if you want to seek advice and take the animal husbandry seriously, you’ll also need to be prepared to hear what others have to say, even if the truth isn’t always pretty.

That's true! Keep in mind, I didn't say I don't have any RO Water -- I just said I don't have an RODI Unit!

The boxed water makes it so I never have to top off and my salinity is always at a constant 1.026. I have a digital meter that provides me the information! All the other parameters are fine.

Would you be able to recommend me a unit? There are a lot to choose from.

Pictures soon.

Zigma · Feb 20, 2022

I do not have a sand bed, I have a black rock bed.

Off I go to LFS. Wish me luck!

Lyss · Feb 20, 2022

Zigma said:
That's true! Keep in mind, I didn't say I don't have any RO Water -- I just said I don't have an RODI Unit!

The boxed water makes it so I never have to top off and my salinity is always at a constant 1.026. I have a digital meter that provides me the information! All the other parameters are fine.

Would you be able to recommend me a unit? There are a lot to choose from.

Pictures soon.

Are you in NYC? As in one of the boroughs? I would go to Manhattan Aquariums and see what they have in stock. Or check BRS website — they will have RODI units and you can read about each as well as the reviews left by customers.

trainbob · Feb 20, 2022

I see you live in New York Something Fishy in Northampton Pa. about 2 hours from you have Red Sea and Waterbox tanks in stock. They are closed Monday and Tuesday but give them a call and see if they have what you want

blaxsun · Feb 20, 2022

Zigma said:
Appreciate your response! I think I feel comfortable giving this a shot. Let me see if I can pick this up today at my LFS. Basically, remove the Carbon that I have in the filter, turn the lights off and let this thing do it's thing. I'll read more about this.

Lights are fine and should be left as is (including UV channels). If you have a UV sterilizer running on the tank that should be turned off for an hour after treatment. If you don't have a UV (doubtful on a 13.5 EVO, then you just need to remove the carbon).

Also, if you go the Medic treatment route - mix it up in a small container of RO about 10-15 minutes prior to dilute it as much as possible, and when you add to the tank I'd turn the pump and wavemakers off so it falls straight down into the substrate as opposed to all over the corals. While reef-safe, it will irritate corals and anemones and cause them to retract.