Hydros IV and Other Questions

crabgrass · Nov 13, 2023

Building out a new tank and looking to go all in on Hydros stuff (I think). A few questions:

a) ORP and PH probes are separate, right? You can't get a combined one that works with Hydros (standalone or IV)?

b) The probes that go into IV (e.g. salinity and PH/ORP) would be tested only during your scheduled testing, correct? Hourly, daily, etc. What is the benefit of that vs realtime updates you would get if it was just in your sump?

c) I know its new, but how is the accuracy of the iV system, compared to a Hanna tester?

d) Any experience with the Flow Rate sensors? I was thinking about adding it to a return pump and the UV pump to fine tune flow rate. Is this the common use case for it

n2585722 · Nov 13, 2023

a) The pH or ORP probes use the probe port. You select which one is connected to the port when setting up the input.

b) you will need a pH probe in the iV to test for alkalinity so that one is a given. You can also add a salinity probe. The probes in the iV isolate them from things that can cause errors in the readings. At this time they are sampled before starting the alkalinity test after a couple of drain and fills are done. There are request for having it do pH salinity only readings also. So I am sure that is on their list. I have both a realtime pH and one in the iV. The pH is needed in the iV anyway. The iF has no electronics other than the stirrer. So you will need a X10 to use it. The X10 has a probe port and salinity port. It also has 2 drive ports which one is needed for the iV. It also has 4 precision stepper motor dosing pumps. The iV requires 3 dosing pumps 2 of which have to be precision pumps. The third a drain pump can be a simple doser which uses a drive port. The X10 also has 4 sense ports which is where you connect temp sensors, water level sensors, leak detectors among other things.

c) I have used the iV, KH Carer, Hanna, Fauna Marin and Salifert at the same time and it would be unusual for them to read the same all the time. Usually they are within .3 of each other when the iV and KH Carer have been calibrated and offsets set to match the Hanna. It is best to do that close to your target alkalinity reading though. The alkalinity reading does have an offset you can change and also you can change the test formula used. I think there are 4 selections.

d) I have one of the flow sensors on my return line. It will reduce the flow some having it inline since there is a wheel that rotates with the flow. You can set a normal flow range and have it alert if it gets out of the range.

crabgrass · Nov 14, 2023

Thanks so much, this is really useful. Here is my proposed setup.. does this make senses?

X10

D

ATO

D

iV

S

Temp

Sump

S

Water Level

ATO

S

Role Leak

S

PH

iV

P

Salinity

iV

P

Temp

DT

Doser

iV

Doser

iV

Doser

iV

Doser

NOPOX

Wave Engine

D

4x pumps

(2 Gyre, 2 Varios 6)

Control X3

S

Temp

Sump

S

Skimmer

P

PH

Sump/Realtime

Control XD

D

Doser

Alk

D

Doser

Calc

D

Doser

Mag

Control X2

D

Klir

D

-

S

Klir Sensor

S

ORP

Sump

n2585722 · Nov 14, 2023

Not sure on the Varios 6 pumps. If those are 24v pumps they should work on it. I don't which ones are 24v for that brand. You cannot connect a pH or ORP probe to a sense port so you cannot connect a ORP probe to a X2 since it does not have a probe port. Also you would probably want to use the Hydros 3ml a minute dosing pumps to dose if it is low dose since any dosing pump has to run at least 2.5 seconds per dose and the simple doser has a fixed flow rate of 43ml a minute. The 3ml a minute Hydros dosing pump is and AC pump and you would want a XP8 to power those with instead of an XD. If you are going to dose enough that the run time is not an issue then the simple Hydros dosing pumps should work. Also on you X10 you shoe a pH probe on a sense port and a temp sensor on a probe port. It should be the other way around.

crabgrass · Nov 14, 2023

Thanks for the feedback. How about something like this then:

X10
D	ATO
D	iV
S	Temp
S	Water Level
S	Rope Leak
S	Temp (DT)
P	Salinity - iV
P	PH - iV
Doser	iV
Doser	iV
Doser	iV
Doser	NOPOX

Wave Engine
D	4x pumps (2 Gyre, 2 Varios 6 10v Control)


Control X4
D	Klir
D	-
S	Temp
S	Skimmer
S	Klir
S	Flow Rate (return)
P	PH (realtime, sump)
P	ORP (realtime, sump)


XP8
AC	3ml Doser
AC	3ml Doser
AC	3ml Doser
AC	Skimmer
AC	Heater 1
AC	Heater 2 (backup)
AC	Ozone
AC	Lights

Wifi Power Strip
AC	Pump 1 (AC)
AC	Pump 1 (AC)
AC	Fuge Light
AC	UV
USB	Auto Feeder

n2585722 · Nov 14, 2023

That will work depending on the use of the pumps on the wifi strip. Keep in mind on it if for some reason you were to loose wifi communication between the collective and the strip the strip will remain in whatever state they are in when the communication is lost no matter how long it is lost unless there is a power outage then it would revert to off until commanded back on. If you are going to use the Hydros wifi feeder that is an always on type of connection so it could be a regular AC output since it had the AC adapter with it but you can use the USB outputs on a wifi strip to power it if you set them up as an always on output. I have my heaters hooked up to an XP8 but I do have the thermostat on the heaters set to 3 degrees higher than the Hydros heater settings as a backup, Always use a backup off for heaters just in case. I think a heater stuck on failure is a major cause of tank crashes so better safe than sorry.

crabgrass · Nov 14, 2023

n2585722 said:
That will work depending on the use of the pumps on the wifi strip. Keep in mind on it if for some reason you were to loose wifi communication between the collective and the strip the strip will remain in whatever state they are in when the communication is lost no matter how long it is lost unless there is a power outage then it would revert to off until commanded back on. If you are going to use the Hydros wifi feeder that is an always on type of connection so it could be a regular AC output since it had the AC adapter with it but you can use the USB outputs on a wifi strip to power it if you set them up as an always on output. I have my heaters hooked up to an XP8 but I do have the thermostat on the heaters set to 3 degrees higher than the Hydros heater settings as a backup, Always use a backup off for heaters just in case. I think a heater stuck on failure is a major cause of tank crashes so better safe than sorry.

Good callout on this Wifi Strip. Would it just be simpler to run the Return AC Pumps, lights, etc, running off dumb command strip or Kasa Wifi instead. Since I would not be directly controlling on/off from Hydros app (only using 10v control for flow). And Keep anything that I would want to conditionally control just on the XP8.

Is there anything else you'd add to this setup?

n2585722 · Nov 14, 2023

crabgrass said:
Good callout on this Wifi Strip. Would it just be simpler to run the Return AC Pumps, lights, etc, running off dumb command strip or Kasa Wifi instead. Since I would not be directly controlling on/off from Hydros app (only using 10v control for flow). And Keep anything that I would want to conditionally control just on the XP8.

Is there anything else you'd add to this setup?

I still use the wifi strips for things that would not matter if left off or on until I can intervene. I also use them for testing things. I have my KH Carer and a Hydros sign plugged into one. The KH Carer is always on but I like being able to turn it off if a leak is detected on the tray it is on along with the iV. The sign comes on with the tank lighting but it would be an issue if it were to stay on or stay off. Same with the KH Carer since I would still have the iV running if it did go off and it was not for reasons of a leak detection. AlsoI would get an alert if the any of the wifi devices lost communications and I have my router setup so I can remotely reboot it if it does. Normally at least in my case a wifi communication issue is usually caused by the router. I have tried rebooting the wifi master in the collective first but that does not help and I end up rebooting the router to get them going again. I would use XP8 and drive ports for things like dosing, ATO and AWC since those are directly under controller control and less likely to cause an issue due to communication since they are on a controller that can make it's own decision on what to do if something happens to an input that is used to control that output. So wifi strips have their place. The ones that Hydros uses are Tuya protocol wifi strips and have the same firmware as a standard Tuya protocol power strip with the same configuration.

crabgrass · Nov 14, 2023

So something like this:

XP8
AC	3ml Doser
AC	3ml Doser
AC	3ml Doser
AC	Skimmer
AC	Heater 1
AC	Pump 1 (AC) - Return
AC	Light
AC	Light

Wifi Strip x2
AC	Ozone
AC	Fuge Light
AC	UV
AC	Pump 2 (AC) - UV
AC	Heater 2 (backup)
AC	Open / Flex
AC	Open / Flex
AC	Open / Flex
USB	Feeder

n2585722 · Nov 14, 2023

That will work ok.

crabgrass · Nov 14, 2023

n2585722 said:
That will work ok.

Thanks for all of the feedback, this was really useful. This is probably a lot of overkill for a tank, but love automation. I'd also like to get as much of it done as i build the tank and prevent rewiring a lot after I am setup.

1) is there anything else you would add?

2) Does CV/Hydros do black friday sales at all?

Thanks,

Keith

n2585722 · Nov 14, 2023

It all depends on what all you want it to do. have a build thread on here that has a lot of info on how I use the Hydro from when I started with it 3 years ago. Just click on my tank thread banner in one of my post. The Hydro information starts on page 6 post # 119. It is near the bottom of that page.

crabgrass · Nov 15, 2023

n2585722 said:
The 3ml a minute Hydros dosing pump is and AC pump and you would want a XP8 to power those with instead of an XD.

Out of curiosity, can you use the wifi strip vs XP8 for the micro AC pumps?

n2585722 · Nov 15, 2023

crabgrass said:
Out of curiosity, can you use the wifi strip vs XP8 for the micro AC pumps?

I don't use a wifi strip for dosing, ATO or AWC for the reason of the way they react to a loss of communication. If communication is lost between the wifi strip and controller the wifi strip will remain in it's current state until communication is restored or power is removed. So if a dosing output was on it would remain on. So you would dump the entire contents of any dosing container into the tank if the communication issue last that long. I would rather not take that risk. If you do do that though I would limit the amount in the dosing container so hopefully it will not crash the tank if it happens.

crabgrass · Nov 15, 2023

n2585722 said:
I don't use a wifi strip for dosing, ATO or AWC for the reason of the way they react to a loss of communication. If communication is lost between the wifi strip and controller the wifi strip will remain in it's current state until communication is restored or power is removed. So if a dosing output was on it would remain on. So you would dump the entire contents of any dosing container into the tank if the communication issue last that long. I would rather not take that risk. If you do do that though I would limit the amount in the dosing container so hopefully it will not crash the tank if it happens.

Yes... good point

crabgrass · Nov 16, 2023

Last question.. we’ll probably not, but maybe for today.

Any recommendations for an automated Ca test? Or are my options Neptune or Mastertronic for a complete system?

I would relay on weekly/bi-weekly manual testing as well, but would like a view of Alk/Ca.

n2585722 · Nov 16, 2023

crabgrass said:
Last question.. we’ll probably not, but maybe for today.

Any recommendations for an automated Ca test? Or are my options Neptune or Mastertronic for a complete system?

I would relay on weekly/bi-weekly manual testing as well, but would like a view of Alk/Ca.

I use a Hanna tester for calcium and test once a week. It does not change very fast or much but I am dosing All For Reef. At this time it is just Mastertronic and the Trident. The Trident requires a Apex. The Mastertronic units can be integrated with the Hydros to my knowledge. You can add the Hanna test to you Hydros as a manual input.

crabgrass · Nov 16, 2023

n2585722 said:
I use a Hanna tester for calcium and test once a week. It does not change very fast or much but I am dosing All For Reef. At this time it is just Mastertronic and the Trident. The Trident requires a Apex. The Mastertronic units can be integrated with the Hydros to my knowledge. You can add the Hanna test to you Hydros as a manual input.

Cool. I am planning to do All4Reef as well. Do you do Part A and Part B with it as well (and adjust / re-calibrate dosages weekly)?

If Alk Shifts during the middle of the week, do you add/reduce All4Reef or Part B? Just curious how you manage it?

n2585722 · Nov 16, 2023

crabgrass said:
Cool. I am planning to do All4Reef as well. Do you do Part A and Part B with it as well (and adjust / re-calibrate dosages weekly)?

If Alk Shifts during the middle of the week, do you add/reduce All4Reef or Part B? Just curious how you manage it?

I do dose a KH buffer which is baked baking soda mixed in water. They both are dosed dynamically on the Hydros. I just tweak the dose for All For Reef when needed and same for the KH buffer. I have the X10 and use two of it's pumps for this. I use the other two pumps for the fill pump and reagent pump for alkalinity testing. I use a simple doser for the drain pump hooked to one of the drive ports on the X10. The iV stirrer is hooked to the other drive port. Here is a couple of screenshots of my All For Reef and KH buffer dosing. I have been mixing my All For Reef at half strength so to get the actual full strength just cut the value in half. The original dosing pump required the half strength mix so it could dose it. It would not dose a smaller amount. The KH buffer has 2 schedules a day and a night schedule. So the daytime is dosed at a higher amount than the night schedule,