How toxic are frogspawn and zoa corals?

[leotigris]

I’m new to the hobby and my tanks been running for about a month. It might be too early to start thinking about corals but thought I’d do the research.

I have a pair of clowns and looking for something that may host them, anemones seem require more experience in the hobby so I’m looking at frog spawn. I know that there’s no guarantee for hosting but have read stores of frog spawn hosting clowns.

I’d also like some zoas for the colour. However I’ve read that both of these are toxic and read some horror stories about people’s hands swelling and accidentally getting some in the eye… ouch.

I have the Fluval 123l Marine and appreciate that the stock lighting is only suitable for easy to care for corals.

How toxic are these corals and are there any very low toxic options in either of these?

Alternatively I’m looking at macro algae for some colour. Red Grape Botryocladia and Dragons Breath look good.

I really like the look of the Dragons Breath but I can’t find any sellers in the UK.

 

[BradB]

Get a bubble tip anemone, especially if you can find a split from a local hobbyist. They aren't that difficult, I have a bunch and I can't keep frogspawn, although I suspect my Angelfish eats it.

You are opening a can of worms with zooanthid toxicity questions. Palytoxin is one of the most toxic substances, although I question the practical dangers. Many mysterious deaths of people, dogs and others have been blamed on zooanthids, usually with insufficient evidence.

 

[flyfisher2]

There are several science articles and advisories on line. Based on those articles it would seem that this is a very serious matter and we should be very careful in handling zoas which contain the palytoxin. Yet so many zoas are kept and propagated in our hobby and very rarely do you hear of mishaps.
I'm tagging along on this one to hopefully get a clearer understanding of exposure and potential danger.

 

[Frizzy reefnewb]

I’m new to the hobby and my tanks been running for about a month. It might be too early to start thinking about corals but thought I’d do the research.

I have a pair of clowns and looking for something that may host them, anemones seem require more experience in the hobby so I’m looking at frog spawn. I know that there’s no guarantee for hosting but have read stores of frog spawn hosting clowns.

I’d also like some zoas for the colour. However I’ve read that both of these are toxic and read some horror stories about people’s hands swelling and accidentally getting some in the eye… ouch.

I have the Fluval 123l Marine and appreciate that the stock lighting is only suitable for easy to care for corals.

How toxic are these corals and are there any very low toxic options in either of these?

Alternatively I’m looking at macro algae for some colour. Red Grape Botryocladia and Dragons Breath look good.

I really like the look of the Dragons Breath but I can’t find any sellers in the UK.

I have Zoas I got in the beginning and now they spread like weeds and have changed to a different ugly color...I get a headache everytime I kill them wish I never got them

 

[Cell]

Get a bubble tip anemone, especially if you can find a split from a local hobbyist. They aren't that difficult, I have a bunch and I can't keep frogspawn, although I suspect my Angelfish eats it.

You are opening a can of worms with zooanthid toxicity questions. Palytoxin is one of the most toxic substances, although I question the practical dangers. Many mysterious deaths of people, dogs and others have been blamed on zooanthids, usually with insufficient evidence.

I would never recommend a BTA for a new reefer with a 1 mo old tank.

Fears of palytoxin are overstated. Wear proper PPE and dont do silly stuff like boil them and the risk is minimal.

 

[BradB]

I would never recommend a BTA for a new reefer with a 1 mo old tank.

Fears of palytoxin are overstated. Wear proper PPE and dont do silly stuff like boil them and the risk is minimal.

A BTA in a new tank for a new hobbiest is a risk. But it may be a $20 risk that supports captive propagation, and it isn't a bigger risk than Frogspawn. If the op is going to take that risk, I'd rather point them in that direction.

 

[WallyB]

I think there is risk with all corals, if you decide to handle them by bare hands, even worse if cutting corals, then not wash hands and then do something dumb like touch your mouth or eyes.

Sure the Palytoxin in CERTAIN Zoa's is MUCH more dangerous, if not properly handed. (Or boiled or burned)
https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/...me/palytoxin+poisoning+marine+aquarium+safety

However it should be noted that corals are generally kept in your tank (Under Water) and if they stay that way (uner water) there is no risk if hands are kept out of tank. (and vice vesa. Your tank is better off with your hand out of it. Period)

As Far as getting Paly's or Zoa's or any invasive species like Xenia, or GSP, their risk is probably more the fact that they will uncontroably spred all over your rock work. The dominant species will win in the long run on connected territory.
I know, since I got that One Nice Green Paly 15 years ago. I still think they are nice but as in a photo of my tank the Invasive Species rule. In my case two species of Paly's, and two species of Mushrooms.

Frogspawn, and any Euphylia will always have a place to mount on rocks, they move with the water flow, and glow under blue lights.

I vote for the Frogspawn since to be they are one of the best Euphylia species. Torches are nice but take forever to grow (at least for me). Non-branching hammers are useless since you can't frag them.

Get one these classic Frogspawns. Hardy, once aclimated to your tank.

Or if you can find a Golden Frogspawn.

I would save the BITA for much later. Personally I don't like them.
I had one as in my Tank photo, I now have 4 and really tough to remove them. They sting my Euphylia.
They clowns never hosted any of the BITA's since they love their mushroom patch much more.

 

[leotigris]

I think there is risk with all corals, if you decide to handle them by bare hands, even worse if cutting corals, then not wash hands and then do something dumb like touch your mouth or eyes.

Sure the Palytoxin in CERTAIN Zoa's is MUCH more dangerous, if not properly handed. (Or boiled or burned)
https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/...me/palytoxin+poisoning+marine+aquarium+safety

However it should be noted that corals are generally kept in your tank (Under Water) and if they stay that way (uner water) there is no risk if hands are kept out of tank. (and vice vesa. Your tank is better off with your hand out of it. Period)

As Far as getting Paly's or Zoa's or any invasive species like Xenia, or GSP, their risk is probably more the fact that they will uncontroably spred all over your rock work. The dominant species will win in the long run on connected territory.
I know, since I got that One Nice Green Paly 15 years ago. I still think they are nice but as in a photo of my tank the Invasive Species rule. In my case two species of Paly's, and two species of Mushrooms.

View attachment 2232697

Frogspawn, and any Euphylia will always have a place to mount on rocks, they move with the water flow, and glow under blue lights.

I vote for the Frogspawn since to be they are one of the best Euphylia species. Torches are nice but take forever to grow (at least for me). Non-branching hammers are useless since you can't frag them.

Get one these classic Frogspawns. Hardy, once aclimated to your tank.

View attachment 2232709

Or if you can find a Golden Frogspawn.

View attachment 2232705

I would save the BITA for much later. Personally I don't like them.
I had one as in my Tank photo, I now have 4 and really tough to remove them. They sting my Euphylia.
They clowns never hosted any of the BITA's since they love their mushroom patch much more.

They do look amazing, how long should I wait to put them in my tank.

It’s been running for a month and I’m showing 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates. I was expecting some Nitrates but not sure if the API test strips I’m using is picking this up properly. It could also be a low bio load, I have a pair of clowns and a six line wrasse at the moment.

Thanks

 

[Cell]

Time for some new test kits. Never use test strips. And personally, I'd move on from API.

 

[Cell]

A BTA in a new tank for a new hobbiest is a risk. But it may be a $20 risk that supports captive propagation, and it isn't a bigger risk than Frogspawn. If the op is going to take that risk, I'd rather point them in that direction.

There is no situation where recommending a BTA to a new reefer with a 1 month old tank is a good idea. You are setting them up for failure. And for what? Because it's cheap and maybe you could propagate it down the line? This is just poor advice and should not be followed.

 

[Cell]

I'd skip the euphyllia this early as well. If I were you I would read up on proper handling of zoas, it's very simple to protect yourself, then go buy a cheap zoa frag and see how it goes.

 

[acanman]

If you have good lighting already and have had it running since the stsrt to kick stsrt and get the "ugly stage" under control, you can add easier corals like zoas,shrooms,duncans,ect

 

[elorablue]

I've never heard of Euphyllia being toxic.
As far as zoanthids go, I would say that they are in 90% of all reef tanks worldwide...so that's how toxic they are.

 

[lilithereefer]

welcome to reef2reef!

 

[WallyB]

They do look amazing, how long should I wait to put them in my tank.

It’s been running for a month and I’m showing 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates. I was expecting some Nitrates but not sure if the API test strips I’m using is picking this up properly. It could also be a low bio load, I have a pair of clowns and a six line wrasse at the moment.

Thanks

Hmmm. I would wait till your tank is 4-6 months old.

The reason is mostly to allow your tank to go thru aging and the typical ulgy stage.

Why risk a nice specimen.

But Euphylia don't really need much other than good water quality, and Light. They eat light not so much nutrients.
So once you tank is a stable, you can certainly start with a frogspawn.

If you tank is 0 on Ammonia and Nitrates that's a good sign. Nitrates will come as you increase you bio load and feed the tank more (ie fish)