How long does it take to reduce Phosphate with reactor

balajeek15 · Aug 3, 2019

I am trying to maintain Phosphate on my 73gal tank since I started to increase from zero, it went up to 0.12 and then 0.08 and then to 0.00 again 0.05 and current range in last 3 week is 0.08, 0.06, now 0.07. My usual feeding is flakes, pellets and mysis, got LRS frozen food yesterday and will be feeding in replacement of mysis.

I have my Phosphan reactor offline, If i bring it online and try to get it to 0.02/0.03 range any idea how many hours i can keep it online to bring it down,

Thanks.

dwest · Aug 3, 2019

balajeek15 said:
I am trying to maintain Phosphate on my 73gal tank since I started to increase from zero, it went up to 0.12 and then 0.08 and then to 0.00 again 0.05 and current range in last 3 week is 0.08, 0.06, now 0.07. My usual feeding is flakes, pellets and mysis, got LRS frozen food yesterday and will be feeding in replacement of mysis.

I have my Phosphan reactor offline, If i bring it online and try to get it to 0.02/0.03 range any idea how many hours i can keep it online to bring it down,

Thanks.

It sounds like your system is still trying to achieve equilibrium. I personally wouldn’t run phosban at all with you numbers. How is your tank doing?

dwest · Aug 3, 2019

balajeek15 said:
I am trying to maintain Phosphate on my 73gal tank since I started to increase from zero, it went up to 0.12 and then 0.08 and then to 0.00 again 0.05 and current range in last 3 week is 0.08, 0.06, now 0.07. My usual feeding is flakes, pellets and mysis, got LRS frozen food yesterday and will be feeding in replacement of mysis.

I have my Phosphan reactor offline, If i bring it online and try to get it to 0.02/0.03 range any idea how many hours i can keep it online to bring it down,

Thanks.

If you do decide to add phosphate reducing media, do it very slowly. Add about 1/4 of manufacturer recommendations until you get where you want to be. Go slow. But again, I wouldn’t do it.

lapin · Aug 3, 2019

First your phosphate is not high. 0.1 is just fine. The reactor will strip out all the rest of your P04 and your corals will have no nutrients and die.
Depending on how much media is in the reactor and how high P04 is will deturmin how fast P04 gets stripped out.

ScottB · Aug 3, 2019

Agree with all above to go slow -- if at all. Are you actively battling GHA or turf algae?

One of my systems (newer) I am actually DOSING PO4.
In the other -- much older with tons of old rock -- I run a tablespoon of Rowaphos blended with GAC for four hours a day.

My sticks like .05 to .08 for best colors.

Test, test, test. We don't want you to end up living in the dinoflagellate thread.

Lasse · Aug 3, 2019

0.08, 0.06 and 0.07 is - IMO - very stable and do not indicate any huge reservoir of PO4 in your system. If all looking good - I would stay put. If you run GFO - you could have more instability and fast changes. When do you test? Do a test in the morning (just before light will switch on) and a test just before when your light will go below 50 % intensity (of your normal max intensity) If you do this way - you will have a good picture of your consumption of PO4 (and also your dayly production)

Sincerely Lasse

balajeek15 · Aug 3, 2019

Its a year old, when my coral started to diminish and lost two acro (tried as test) and started researhing and found that my tank is too clean with zero Ni and Phos, So started to increase my feeding more which after a month did not increase at all, then started dosing Nitrate with Potassium Nitrate formula (found here in R2R) and I seem to get Nitrate in control around 5ppm dosing every 2 weeks or so, but couldn't keep up with Phosphate, if i dose Seachem Phosphate (just 1/3rd of cap) it goes up like 0.12 and takes a 2-3 weeks to come down and if i leave it longer with out dosing it gets to zero one day.
ICP showed I am low on micro nutrients, so started dosing RedSea ABCD once or twice a week hoping it will come back at some point. During this process i can see polyps started to come back

As for the Phosphate 2 weeks ago it was 0.08, I did not dose any Phosphate other then feeding hoping it will come down, 1 weeks ago it was 0.06 so i thought it coming down slowly, today when checked again its 0.07, its 0.01 more than last week, I am thinking what did i do that increased 0.01 in a week and all i remember is adding 5ml of RedSea Reef food A+B.

As far the corals, not sure why some of zoa's not fully open and does'n show their colors, GSP retracted most of the time (which when i got and put him 3 weeks ago it was fine for few days)

3 BTAs goes retracted many times, and when if open it look slim, doesn't bubble up to its full like when i got them.

other than that, my leather, hammer, torch, acans, green goni all doing fine.

I have a feeling some things are not right and I am struggling to get it correct.

balajeek15 · Aug 3, 2019

ScottB said:
Agree with all above to go slow -- if at all. Are you actively battling GHA or turf algae?

One of my systems (newer) I am actually DOSING PO4.
In the other -- much older with tons of old rock -- I run a tablespoon of Rowaphos blended with GAC for four hours a day.

My sticks like .05 to .08 for best colors.

Test, test, test. We don't want you to end up living in the dinoflagellate thread.

I have al algae issues

dwest · Aug 3, 2019

balajeek15 said:
As for the Phosphate 2 weeks ago it was 0.08, I did not dose any Phosphate other then feeding hoping it will come down, 1 weeks ago it was 0.06 so i thought it coming down slowly, today when checked again its 0.07, its 0.01 more than last week, I am thinking what did i do that increased 0.01 in a week and all i remember is adding 5ml of RedSea Reef food A+B.

IME these phosphate values are likely very close to the same. There is always testing error associated with test kits. If I measured those values, I would think to myself that phosphates are steady, and in a good range.

Also, I kept BTA’s for over 20 years. Some of mine had bubbles, and some were stringy.

If you feel something is not right, I would make sure that you are on a consistent water change schedule and that your RODI unit is working properly. I would also keep the nutrients measurable but not worry about the numbers.

jda · Aug 3, 2019

What are you using to test you phosphate? Those numbers are all within the margin of error for some checkers. Do you have a Hannah Ultra Low? If not, I recommend getting one since they are more precise. If you have an Ultra-Low checker, then cool. If not, I would not do anything until you do. Chasing can do more damage than leaving it alone. Eventually, the rock/sand will aborb what it is going to and then act as a buffer and it will keep you pretty stable.

.1 is still 10-20x more than seawater and is not growth-limiting to any algae or dinos (zoox). It is not really high for an aquarium, but as you are saying, you can have algae. What you likely need is consumers for the algae. How much algae do you have in your 70 gallon tank? Photo might help. I usually recommend Pincushion Urhins from the Florida Keys... they are hardy for me, reef safe and devour any type of algae from bubble to hair to film to coralline. People hate them because they eat coralline, but they will eat the soft stuff first and if you are good at this, you will soon have more coralline than you can stand (you have likely seen how much people hate the stuff after a while). If you give some more details, I can recommend a number to get - usually quite a few and then you give some of them away when you are done with them and make good friends in the local market.

I recommend that you read/study on aragonite binding of phosphate. It is a really important piece of chemistry that most do not understand. When you added phosphate, all that you likely did was just have your aragonite absorb it.

If you do decide that you want to lower the level, then I recommend chaeto since it cannot get your tank too low like GFO can. It takes some time and patience, but works wonderfully if you let it.

Lasse · Aug 3, 2019

A difference in 0.01 ppm PO4 is nothing, nothing at all. It means that if you have 100 liters of water - it is a difference of 1 milligram of PO4. Is enough for you to breath or not breath at the sample when you took it

It could be a FBK fault too

- is nothing!

Sincerely Lasse

BrianReefer · Aug 3, 2019

Go slow, I’d suggest leaving it be. You run the risk of a cyano or worse, a Dino outbreak if you strip the phosphates to chase a low #. And that will be a much more painful problem to solve!

balajeek15 · Aug 4, 2019

jda said:
What are you using to test you phosphate? Those numbers are all within the margin of error for some checkers. Do you have a Hannah Ultra Low? If not, I recommend getting one since they are more precise. If you have an Ultra-Low checker, then cool. If not, I would not do anything until you do. Chasing can do more damage than leaving it alone. Eventually, the rock/sand will aborb what it is going to and then act as a buffer and it will keep you pretty stable.

.1 is still 10-20x more than seawater and is not growth-limiting to any algae or dinos (zoox). It is not really high for an aquarium, but as you are saying, you can have algae. What you likely need is consumers for the algae. How much algae do you have in your 70 gallon tank? Photo might help. I usually recommend Pincushion Urhins from the Florida Keys... they are hardy for me, reef safe and devour any type of algae from bubble to hair to film to coralline. People hate them because they eat coralline, but they will eat the soft stuff first and if you are good at this, you will soon have more coralline than you can stand (you have likely seen how much people hate the stuff after a while). If you give some more details, I can recommend a number to get - usually quite a few and then you give some of them away when you are done with them and make good friends in the local market.

I recommend that you read/study on aragonite binding of phosphate. It is a really important piece of chemistry that most do not understand. When you added phosphate, all that you likely did was just have your aragonite absorb it.

If you do decide that you want to lower the level, then I recommend chaeto since it cannot get your tank too low like GFO can. It takes some time and patience, but works wonderfully if you let it.

Thanks for the feedback and advice, I don't have any green or brown alage issue right now, I do have a lot of coraline and seem fine. Yes i use Hanna for Alk and Phosphate, but for sure I am missing something in my water parameter that some corals and bta didn't like it. GSP opens up just couple hours after lights come on and retracts. few zoas closed or shrinking, (sometime wonder if the flame angel or neon blue damsel picking them), haven't seen any evidence so far. btw i don't do WC on a regular basis, only when i needed for QT i remove some and refill with newly mixed salt water.

jda · Aug 5, 2019

Change some water. One of my current 240g tanks was once a Z&P only tank until I got rid of most of them and put acropora in there (more true to my roots). Some would shrink and melt without water changes, some would just pause and some would not care at all.

I do still have a few choice varities in my acropora tank and they grow like weeds with the high quality water and high light.

IMO, do a few 20-25% water changes and see if things perk up. If so, then put them on your regular schedule. Nothing will be cheaper or easier than this... you can change 200g of water for the cost of one ICP test, which will likely tell you nothing of consequence.

balajeek15 · Aug 5, 2019

I can try the 25% water change but wouldn't that change water parameters suddenly, is that okay?

The main reason I took no water change route is becaz for convenience, unless If i had to automate with big barrels of water stored somewhere which i've no place for, but dosing can be scheduled and takes less space. I see your point on the cost, but I usually don't have much time and when i do i like to sit, watch, observe the tank itself rather than doing maintenance, I wanted to come up with something with less maintenance. Another reason to start back reef tank year ago is some advancement in controllers to automate and monitor many things.

saltyhog · Aug 5, 2019

Lasse said:
A difference in 0.01 ppm PO4 is nothing, nothing at all. It means that if you have 100 liters of water - it is a difference of 1 milligram of PO4. Is enough for you to breath or not breath at the sample when you took it It could be a FBK fault too - is nothing!

Sincerely Lasse

This, even with the very best hobby testing we have those numbers are effectively the same! Even with the best kit there is not one that is able to discern PO4 levels that accurately. What test method are you using?

Be very careful about trying to get your phosphate in the 0.02 range. That's borderline undetectable by most kits . There is little to be gained by aiming that low and much potential harm you could do. 0.06 to 0.08 is very stable and ideal IMO.

balajeek15 · Aug 5, 2019

saltyhog said:
This, even with the very best hobby testing we have those numbers are effectively the same! Even with the best kit there is not one that is able to discern PO4 levels that accurately. What test method are you using?

Be very careful about trying to get your phosphate in the 0.02 range. That's borderline undetectable by most kits . There is little to be gained by aiming that low and much potential harm you could do. 0.06 to 0.08 is very stable and ideal IMO.

Using Hanna to test the Phosphate and there are few times it did show 0.02.
Upto to what level is considered safe. I test once a week and record it in apex fusion for history. thanks.

Lasse · Aug 5, 2019

IMO - it ia not a safe level. It's too low for most aquarium and can promote cyano and/or Dino outbreak. NSF values is around 0.04 in most of the natural coral reefs worldwide.

Sincerely Lasse

saltyhog · Aug 5, 2019

Like @Lasse said so well and I said poorly....0.02 is too close to zero to be safe. In fact with the accuracy of your testing method (which I believe to be the best for this parameter) it could actually really be zero.

I think you were asking what the upper limit of safe PO4 is? There are many tanks with levels higher than 0.15 that are thriving with healthy colorful coral. I personally want my PO4 to be no lower than 0.06 but actually prefer it around 0.1. I'm a little paranoid as I have had the dino problem Lasse was referring to.