High sulfur levels in Reef Crystals?!

[Aquamind]

Hey all, new reefer here. My first tank is about 10 months old right now. I've had the expected ups and downs, but I have been perplexed by how poorly corals are doing. Zoas and GSP survive but don't grow. Discosoma and rhodactis wither away and die. A big frag of pulsing xenia I recently added immediately closed up and melted away. All parameters I can test with hobby kits seem fine. salinity 1.0265 ph 7.9 to 8.1 alk 9 nitrate 8 phos .04 But clearly something is up, supposedly hardy corals are instantly dying in my tank.

So I sent an ICP test of my tank water. Mostly normal levels except for high sulfur and low chloride. So I did a couple bigger water changes (20 percent instead of 10) waited a month or so and sent off some more ICPs. This time I got smarter and tested my fresh mixed salt water too. Tank results are not back yet, but the fresh mixed results are in. Sulfur is high 3412ppm and chlorine is low 12569ppm.

So I guess the question is how harmful are high sulfur levels with low chlorine? Has anybody ever seen this imbalance in their salt mix? Is this why my tank kills corals, and should I ditch the Reef Crystals?

 

[taricha]

All parameters I can test with hobby kits seem fine. salinity 1.0265 ph 7.9 to 8.1 alk 9 nitrate 8 phos .04 But clearly something is up, supposedly hardy corals are instantly dying in my tank.

So I sent an ICP test of my tank water. Mostly normal levels except for high sulfur and low chloride. So I did a couple bigger water changes (20 percent instead of 10) waited a month or so and sent off some more ICPs. This time I got smarter and tested my fresh mixed salt water too. Tank results are not back yet, but the fresh mixed results are in. Sulfur is high 3412ppm and chlorine is low 12569ppm.

Is that 3400ppm Sulfur or sulfate (SO4)? If it's 3000+ ppm S, that's a red flag on that bag of salt. It's 3x too high in an already major ion.

Did your titration test kits for Ca and Mg come up fine? seems hard to see how they could test fine with way high Sulfur and way low Cl-.

 

[jda]

I am not saying that Aquarium Pharm is beyond reproach, but I would trust RC and IO more than a ICP test. I would guess that there is another explanation here.

 

[taricha]

I am not saying that Aquarium Pharm is beyond reproach, but I would trust RC and IO more than a ICP test.

This is also true.

 

[n2585722]

Did you test the RODI water you are using to mix with the salt?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you post the results?

How low is chloride?

What ICP company?

3,000 ppm is not all that high for sulfate (35 ppt seawater is 2700 ppm) but is extraordinarily high for S alone.

I agree that it is more likely a test error than a salt mix issue, but could be either one.

 

[Dom]

Are you using tap water or RODI?

 

[Aquamind]

Thanks for the responses! These results are from ICP Analysis in Colorado. I am using RODI water. A prior ICP done with ATI also showed high sulfur/low chlorine, I dont have access to those results right now, will post later. And yes I know Ca and Mg are also low, just didnt bring it up because that's easy enough to fix.

 

[Dom]

I’d be curious to know if sulfur levels are an issue in your geographic location.

That info is available on the website of your local environmental protection agency.

 

[taricha]

A prior ICP done with ATI also showed high sulfur/low chlorine, I dont have access to those results right now, will post later. And yes I know Ca and Mg are also low, just didnt bring it up because that's easy enough to fix.

Right, but if your Mg and Ca titration kits confirm the general result from ICP, then you know the answer. (Toss the bag - something has gone wrong with it.)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’d be curious to know if sulfur levels are an issue in your geographic location.

That info is available on the website of your local environmental protection agency.

There’s little chance it is from the source water if it is 0-1 ppm tds. Sulfate is very easily removed by RO/di.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the responses! These results are from ICP Analysis in Colorado. I am using RODI water. A prior ICP done with ATI also showed high sulfur/low chlorine, I dont have access to those results right now, will post later. And yes I know Ca and Mg are also low, just didnt bring it up because that's easy enough to fix.

That’s a blown test. I can immediately tell it is faulty because the negatively charged ions vastly outnumber the positive ones, and in reality, charges MUST add up to zero.

Get another test from another company before taking ANY action.

 

[Tankkeepers]

I am not saying that Aquarium Pharm is beyond reproach, but I would trust RC and IO more than a ICP test. I would guess that there is another explanation here.

Why would you trust a manufacture with known bad bags of salt vs an icp test especially when the op said this is the second test showing similar results

This make 0 sense at all

 

[Uriken]

I been using Reef Crystals for 26+ years. Ran plenty of water tests and never had this issue. With the corals withering away I'm curious as to what live rock / substrate you have and the type of lights?

 

[Tankkeepers]

I been using Reef Crystals for 26+ years. Ran plenty of water tests and never had this issue. With the corals withering away I'm curious as to what live rock / substrate you have and the type of lights?

I did have this problem before I switched

Lighting was 4 t5 ho 4 bulb units from aquatic life over a 125 evenly spaced

Par was 100 to 500 depending on overhangs depth and how off center from the light it was 100 was the lowest at the sand bed in between the lights

10k and actinic even

Fiji live rock

Carabian live aragonite sand

It was not the lights or Substrate it was the salt mix from io that was the problem

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why would you trust a manufacture with known bad bags of salt vs an icp test especially when the op said this is the second test showing similar results

This make 0 sense at all

Misinformation. You do not understand chemistry if you think this icp is accurate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did have this problem before I switched

Lighting was 4 t5 ho 4 bulb units from aquatic life over a 125 evenly spaced

Par was 100 to 500 depending on overhangs depth and how off center from the light it was 100 was the lowest at the sand bed in between the lights

10k and actinic even

Fiji live rock

Carabian live aragonite sand

It was not the lights or Substrate it was the salt mix from io that was the problem

You may have had issues being successful. It was not because water looks like this icp test.

I was successful with normal IO for 20 years. I wonder why you weren’t?

 

[Dom]

He's a troll.

I too have been using IORC for close to 20 years. Any yes, there have been issues with it not mixing to the numbers stated. I once had an issue with low ALK levels with IO. But I supplemented the mix to get my target levels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I too have been using IORC for close to 20 years. Any yes, there have been issues with it not mixing to the numbers stated. I once had an issue with low ALK levels with IO. But I supplemented the mix to get my target levels.

And no, Randy is not a troll.

I certainly would not claim there aren’t occasionally bad batches of salt mix of any brand. It’s actually surprising to me there aren’t more given the complexity of a salt mix with many different ingredients of widely varying concentration, density and particle size. Mixing dry powders to get them all into small bags and buckets in the right amounts seems hard to me. The big concentration difference also means specs on the major ion purity need to be fairly tight so that trace elements do not get high just because they are impurities in the major ions.

That said, I think bad batch claims are far, far more likely to be user issues such as bad testing, precipitation, wrong salinity, or contaminants in the source water.

 

[jft]

I have used Reef crystals and IO for 23 years NEVER a problem, MY animals THRIVE.