High nitrates low Phosphate

[Boogieman]

I could use some help

This is going to be alot of info

120 gallon plus sump... Life rock
Sand bed

Filter roller on a seperate pump.
Protien Skimmer,
GFO. Biopellets. Carbon

Large: Blue, grey and yellow tang .
Small: gramma, goby, chromus, Damsel

3 Hermit crab Halloween, Hawaiian and 1 other
Serpent star
Tuxedo urchin that died after 2 month
4 inch patch of GSP
1 inch patch of fire and ice Zoa
4- 2 inch anemone when open (carpet style though I don't really know what they are)

Recently added (15 days ago)
Small clown fish,
2 Tuxedo urchin
1 Larger multicolor urchin

Tank is a year old and i am struggling with algea which is getting better

I have dosed Pro Bio S for 9 months
Along with kalkwasser . Alkalinity is about 9.0 for the last 2 months

And about 2 months ago i started micro bacter clean. The micro bacter is noticeablely helping based on required glass cleaning

I ran vodka about 9 months ago with a little gfo in an attempt to drop nitrates. It worked. I was down below 10 nitrates and 0.03 phosphates ... dosing at 7ml Kirkland vodka

I had heard vodka dosing can cause other issues... cyano etc . so I stopped and bought a Bio pellet reactor hoping that would be better. It has never helped.
Nitrates 50 Phosphates 0.27 or higher

Thinking about the redfield ratio I started running GFO about 3 weeks ago from 0.27 and as of today am down to 0.018 ( so I think i need to let that come up a bit )

I also started dosing vodka again for the last 2 or 3 months for nitrates I am now higher than I have ever been at 8 ml/day And nitrates are still above 50.. they have never come down.

I would love any input on why the vodka doesn't seem to be working. Or any other things I can try .

 

[DanyL]

For how long did you try running the Biopellets reactor?
What reactor did you use?
High/low flow?
Was the output of the reactor directed towards the intake of your skimmer?

I personally use Biopellets for several years now and I found it to be extremely well suited to remove high nitrates.
My hypothesis is that you either didn't give it enough time to break in, or something was wrong with they way it was setup.

As for phosphates, GFO does work well as a long term solution as long as you maintain it properly.
I like to put a good amount of GFO and control it by limiting the flow, this allows me to fine tune the absorption rate.

That being said, I'm wondering what is the source of your high nutrients in the first place?
Is it an old system by any chance?

 

[bushdoc]

Tough cookie!
Feeding too much?
Detritus accumulating in sandbed?
Protein skimmer not rated for your tank size?
Not enough Live rock?
Now about Vodka vs Biopellet reactor-both work well, I was using both systems. As DanylL suggested perhaps you should've run reactor longer.
I prefer vodka or vinegar though, you can adjust it more precisely. It takes few weeks for noticable effects if you go slow and that is what I would recommend.
Other way to try would be to put large bioblock in a sump in a low flow area to harbor denitryfying bacteria. It worked so well in my tank, that I had to remove it as my Nitrates were 0.

 

[Boogieman]

For how long did you try running the Biopellets reactor?







What reactor did you use?







High/low flow?







Was the output of the reactor directed towards the intake of your skimmer?















I personally use Biopellets for several years now and I found it to be extremely well suited to remove high nitrates.







My hypothesis is that you either didn't give it enough time to break in, or something was wrong with they way it was setup.















As for phosphates, GFO does work well as a long term solution as long as you maintain it properly.







I like to put a good amount of GFO and control it by limiting the flow, this allows me to fine tune the absorption rate.















That being said, I'm wondering what is the source of your high nutrients in the first place?







Is it an old system by any chance?







..















I have been running the biopellets for about 6 months.
It is a single XL Aqquamax but nothing special just a fluidized bed I have a small pond pump pumping water in and effluent coming out its enough to make the pellets move a bit but I really have no Idea if it's fast or slow.

I had not been directing the effluent to the Skimmer just back in the sump mostly after the Skimmer actually due to the arrangement and hose length.. I could add hose to direct it right beside the Skimmer that's a good idea. Never thought about that part of it .

The system is 1 year old . .

I plan to hopefully control Phosphates with gfo until I figure out something better. But I don't mind using it .

Hoping biopellets do the bulk of the work with nutrients . And then just fine tune with GFO.

I only feed frozen food once a day for about the last 8 months as a recommendation to help with algea.

I do feed alot I think as my blue tang is ravenous and will eat all the food before the rest get any so I have to over feed a bit to ensure everyone gets some.. but only frozen food . And its always eaten up.. I really don't do pellets any more. Unless I am away.

 

[Boogieman]

Tough cookie!































































































































Feeding too much?































































































































Detritus accumulating in sandbed?































































































































Protein skimmer not rated for your tank size?































































































































Not enough Live rock?































































































































Now about Vodka vs Biopellet reactor-both work well, I was using both systems. As DanylL suggested perhaps you should've run reactor longer.































































































































I prefer vodka or vinegar though, you can adjust it more precisely. It takes few weeks for noticable effects if you go slow and that is what I would recommend.































































































































Other way to try would be to put large bioblock in a sump in a low flow area to harbor denitryfying bacteria. It worked so well in my tank, that I had to remove it as my Nitrates were 0.



I have had a Bio block in my system from day 1 as I only have fake rock. But maybe I need more

 

[Boogieman]

Been running a Bio block from day one as I have fake rock but Maybe I need more.

As I think skimmer is sized relatively ok atleast for now. Seems to provide good foam..

 

[Boogieman]

Sorry my phone does not like this forum I will try fix my previous reply

 

[Boogieman]

I have been running the biopellets for about 6 months.
It is a single XL Aqquamax but nothing special just a fluidized bed I have a small pond pump pumping water in and effluent coming out its enough to make the pellets move a bit but I really have no Idea if it's fast or slow.

I had not been directing the effluent to the Skimmer just back in the sump mostly after the Skimmer actually due to the arrangement and hose length.. I could add hose to direct it right beside the Skimmer that's a good idea. Never thought about that part of it .

The system is 1 year old . .

I plan to hopefully control Phosphates with gfo until I figure out something better. But I don't mind using it .

Hoping biopellets do the bulk of the work with nutrients . And then just fine tune with GFO.

I only feed frozen food once a day for about the last 8 months as a recommendation to help with algea.

I do feed alot I think as my blue tang is ravenous and will eat all the food before the rest get any so I have to over feed a bit to ensure everyone gets some.. but only frozen food . And its always eaten up.. I really don't do pellets any more. Unless I am away.

 

[DanyL]

It is indeed a bit hard to determine the exact flow for Biopellets, it took me a while to fine tune it myself.
My suggestion for you is to look how fast the pellets should move on YouTube, there are quite a few videos showcasing it.

Directing the output of the reactor towards the intake of the skimmer does make a big difference, in fact it makes it so efficient it may bottom out your nitrates quickly, so watch out for that. The idea behind it is simple - you grow bacteria inside the reactor, it consumes the pellets which are used as a carbon source alongside the nitrates and a bit of the phosphates found in the water, and since bacteria is an organic matter, the skimmer is now able to pull it out of the water column.

As for the phosphates, you mentioned you're using "fake rocks", I'm not entirely sure what it means, however your rock work is supposed to be able to absorb phosphates. Some rocks have better absorption abilities and higher capacities than others, so you might indeed want to add additional media to balance the absorption abilities in your system.

Additionally, rocks can also leach phosphates to the water, it usually happens with rocks that has been in use for years and reached their full capacity (like I recently experienced, after 15 years of use), but artificial rocks may leach phosphates as well. In this case GFO might not be sufficient enough to pull it out efficiently, or economically and you might consider the use of lanthanum - however this stuff is potent, and highly dangerous to fish like tangs and wrasses, and it is highly advisable to go slowly, using an IV to drip it into a 5 micron sock with a good water flow is a great way to do it safely, but please do your homework here and make sure you understand how to work with it.

Your feedings - the more gets in, the more comes out. Fish poop is rich in nutrients, the good kind of nutrients that corals love, however everything good in high amounts becomes a problem eventually, so I suggest you to look for alternative strategies to make sure all fish get fed without the need to over feed your system.

 

[Boogieman]

The rocks I am using is Carib sea life rock.. the purple ones. I do have to brightwell bricks I have had from day one in the sump.

Fun part is I put 2 pounds( 2packages any way.. assuming it's a pound each) of GFO in 4 days ago yesterday my Phosphate was 0.018 it became spent some time yesterday and now 24 hours later my Phosphate is 0.080. Which is ridiculous.



I have emptied and restocked with my last pound. But I suspect it's not going to last .. I find it surprising that it would shoot up that fast. Hanna phosphorus checker from 6 to 29. In 24 hours

 

[Boogieman]

I have changed my bio ball effluent hose to be closer the Skimmer it's pretty much dropping it on the intake now .

 

[DanyL]

The rocks I am using is Carib sea life rock.. the purple ones. I do have to brightwell bricks I have had from day one in the sump.

Fun part is I put 2 pounds( 2packages any way.. assuming it's a pound each) of GFO in 4 days ago yesterday my Phosphate was 0.018 it became spent some time yesterday and now 24 hours later my Phosphate is 0.080. Which is ridiculous.



I have emptied and restocked with my last pound. But I suspect it's not going to last .. I find it surprising that it would shoot up that fast. Hanna phosphorus checker from 6 to 29. In 24 hours

Brightwell bricks are known to accumulate phosphates overtime and start leaching.
You might find this video interesting to watch:


As for your GFO usage...
- 2 pounds of GFO is way too much for a 120g system. Something is definitely off.
- Depending on the brand, GFO sometimes may take a few days to fully activate.
- Reactors should be optimized for the amount you use, it may not be able to handle 2 pounds efficiently.
- Make sure the flow was set correctly.

I also want to make sure your tests are done correctly:
- Hanna checkers are picky. Make sure the cuvettes are wiped clean and free from scratches, and to put them inside the checker in the same angle each test. Also make sure there are no air bubbles or detritus in the sample.
- Nutrients needs to be tested at least 6 hours after feeding or dosing n03/po4 and at around the same time of the day for consistency, to eliminate misreads.

I have changed my bio ball effluent hose to be closer the Skimmer it's pretty much dropping it on the intake now .

Perfect.

 

[Boogieman]

I thought the same thing that 2 pounds would be too much. Once I got to a happy spot was going to limit flow and try hold that value. I finally got there and then it seemed to be spent.



I do wipe down the cuvette everytime before i put it in and started a brand new one this week only used for phosphorus now.
I also feed in the evening and have been testing in the morning about 18 hour later.

However angle is something I never pay attention too.

How do you mark them to know ?

I will watch the video thank you for your help so far.. I appreciate it.

 

[DanyL]

If I'd have to guess, I bet the reactor wasn't able to evenly distribute the water under the pressure of the media.
This would result in channels being created where most of the water would pass through and the media around it to deplete quickly, while the rest would get little to no flow at all and would be left unused or partially unused.

As for the marking, some people draw a line on the cuvette and the checker itself to align it perfectly.
I simply use the markings that already present on both and eyeball it, most of the time it is enough.

 

[Boogieman]

Ok I will try stir up the GFO if it starts reading poor. And I have started putting the Hanna cuvette in the same way every time now. After a week they are up from 13 phosphorus to 69 last night..











Thank you

 

[Dan_P]

I would love any input on why the vodka doesn't seem to be working. Or any other things I can try .

The vodka dose might just be too low for current condition of the system.

Phosphate depletion. This does not seem to be the case if your test results are accurate.

Trace element depletion. Bacteria need trace elements but I think most folks would argue there should be plenty in an aquarium with all the food being added. I take the contrarian position and say maybe that is not always correct. Plus trace element dosing can’t hurt if not overdone.

Switch to vinegar if you believe the “vodka = cyanobacteria threat”.

 

[madaboutreef]

I could use some help

This is going to be alot of info

120 gallon plus sump... Life rock
Sand bed

Filter roller on a seperate pump.
Protien Skimmer,
GFO. Biopellets. Carbon

Large: Blue, grey and yellow tang .
Small: gramma, goby, chromus, Damsel

3 Hermit crab Halloween, Hawaiian and 1 other
Serpent star
Tuxedo urchin that died after 2 month
4 inch patch of GSP
1 inch patch of fire and ice Zoa
4- 2 inch anemone when open (carpet style though I don't really know what they are)

Recently added (15 days ago)
Small clown fish,
2 Tuxedo urchin
1 Larger multicolor urchin

Tank is a year old and i am struggling with algea which is getting better

I have dosed Pro Bio S for 9 months
Along with kalkwasser . Alkalinity is about 9.0 for the last 2 months

And about 2 months ago i started micro bacter clean. The micro bacter is noticeablely helping based on required glass cleaning

I ran vodka about 9 months ago with a little gfo in an attempt to drop nitrates. It worked. I was down below 10 nitrates and 0.03 phosphates ... dosing at 7ml Kirkland vodka

I had heard vodka dosing can cause other issues... cyano etc . so I stopped and bought a Bio pellet reactor hoping that would be better. It has never helped.
Nitrates 50 Phosphates 0.27 or higher

Thinking about the redfield ratio I started running GFO about 3 weeks ago from 0.27 and as of today am down to 0.018 ( so I think i need to let that come up a bit )

I also started dosing vodka again for the last 2 or 3 months for nitrates I am now higher than I have ever been at 8 ml/day And nitrates are still above 50.. they have never come down.

I would love any input on why the vodka doesn't seem to be working. Or any other things I can try .

Best thing I brought was an alage blenny amazing little dude

 

[Boogieman]

I was kind thinking that maybe it still wasn't enough vodka but it seems to be alot .. my goby is now sick so I stopped vodka a few days ago incase that was the issue with him.




I was thinking about trace elements I did buy an icp test but have not used it yet..

I will need to figure out a element dose other than moonshiner. I have some cheato grow at home but no cheato in that system.....not sure if it wpuld be a good idea to dose it ?

 

[Dan_P]

I was kind thinking that maybe it still wasn't enough vodka but it seems to be alot .. my goby is now sick so I stopped vodka a few days ago incase that was the issue with him.




I was thinking about trace elements I did buy an icp test but have not used it yet..

I will need to figure out a element dose other than moonshiner. I have some cheato grow at home but no cheato in that system.....not sure if it wpuld be a good idea to dose it ?

Just some thoughts.

I use CheatoGro because my Ulva wasn’t doing well. The recommended daily dose was too high and sickened my snails. i stopped dosing until snails recovered and then dosed only one daily dose per week. Ulva improved, snails healthy. I did notice a bloom of sponges and little fan worms which continue to this day. I assume the growth was a result of increased microorganism growth, hence my recommendation to think about trace element addition.

CheatoGro has many of the trace elements other products have. No magic here, but maybe be conservative with dosing. I don’t know how the recommended dose was determined, but for me it was too high. No matter what product you buy, you might want to let your aquarium inhabitants tell you if they are getting enough (Or too much in my case). Start low and work up to the recommended dose. wait a couple weeks before increasing the dose. There is no hurry

 

[Boogieman]

Hello so I am happy to report after a dose of 20 mls per day of vodka in my 120 gallon my phosphates and nitrates went from 0.185 and 40 to zero on both. My last increase was 5 mls. Also it stayed High for a long time 6 or 7 months then very quickly with in a month went to zero..

Now to figure out the maintenance dose