Help with diagnosis

[Dvir]

Hi,
White/brownish stringy feces, in real life it's a bit more brownish than in the pictures/video.
Fish is eating and looking well.
10 days in QT, was treated with GC and metro, now starting copper.

Would appreciate your help with diagnosis and further treatment.

Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi,
White/brownish stringy feces, in real life it's a bit more brownish than in the pictures/video.
Fish is eating and looking well.
10 days in QT, was treated with GC and metro, now starting copper.

Would appreciate your help with diagnosis and further treatment.

Thanks

View attachment 3111916 View attachment 3111917 View attachment 3111918

Fish is in color transitioning stage. Fins have lymphocystis which is a condition rather than disease.
The poop appears to be from excess mucus or fats and are likely based on foods fed. This fish needs its meats along with vegetation and vitamins.
I am assuming you are feeding Mysis and pellets. Add foods such as LRS Herbivore diet, spirulina brine, Formula 2 frozen, Hikari veggies blend and Hikari angel formula.
Add selcon vitamins to food occasionally and maintain good water quality with reliable test kits

Also be carful with too many meds in a short window span. Use GC OR Copper, that all at once. Metro can be removed from use and should be applied precisely if used at .05GM by weight which is a very tiny amount

 

[Dvir]

Fish is in color transitioning stage. Fins have lymphocystis which is a condition rather than disease.
The poop appears to be from excess mucus or fats and are likely based on foods fed. This fish needs its meats along with vegetation and vitamins.
I am assuming you are feeding Mysis and pellets. Add foods such as LRS Herbivore diet, spirulina brine, Formula 2 frozen, Hikari veggies blend and Hikari angel formula.
Add selcon vitamins to food occasionally and maintain good water quality with reliable test kits

Also be carful with too many meds in a short window span. Use GC OR Copper, that all at once. Metro can be removed from use and should be applied precisely if used at .05GM by weight which is a very tiny amount

First, thanks!

In the first few days I fed frozen mysis/krill, and since then moved to pellets:
PE Pellets Saltwater Fish Food
Hikari Marine A
Hikari Seaweed Extreme
TDO-EP1 Chroma BOOST

I don't live in the US so the frozen food you mentioned isn't available to me :/ I also have maastik which i'm not currently using and can add to the mix. All is dry food though. I do soak in vitamarin-M by brightwell and korralin zocht amino acid once a week. Am I wrong to feed only dry?

Regarding meds, I did 50% water change before starting copper - but the poop appears this way since before.

 

[vetteguy53081]

First, thanks!

In the first few days I fed frozen mysis/krill, and since then moved to pellets:
PE Pellets Saltwater Fish Food
Hikari Marine A
Hikari Seaweed Extreme
TDO-EP1 Chroma BOOST

I don't live in the US so the frozen food you mentioned isn't available to me :/ I also have maastik which i'm not currently using and can add to the mix. All is dry food though. I do soak in vitamarin-M by brightwell and korralin zocht amino acid once a week. Am I wrong to feed only dry?

Regarding meds, I did 50% water change before starting copper - but the poop appears this way since before.

NOT Wrong on dry, no but not an adequate diet for this type of fish. I have many tangs and feed diets with meats and Greens.
I believe in your country, there is LRS foods. LRS herbivore diet is good. Sera is also available in middle east and diets with plankton, chopped krill and other fine meats offer color enhancers and fats for their dietary needs. There may be Shirley Aquatics’ foods frozen - and pacifica blend,

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi,
White/brownish stringy feces, in real life it's a bit more brownish than in the pictures/video.
Fish is eating and looking well.
10 days in QT, was treated with GC and metro, now starting copper.

Would appreciate your help with diagnosis and further treatment.

Thanks

View attachment 3111916 View attachment 3111917 View attachment 3111918

The feces is probably diet related, doesn't look like an issue to me...clear mucoid feces is more of an issue.

Just for future reference: GC has metro in it, so you do not want to dose that and metro at the same time. Also, I generally run copper before GC, as copper stops protozoan diseases and those kill faster than flukes do, which is what GC works on.

I can see a couple of suspicious white spots on the fish....but if it is ich, the copper will help with that.

Jay

 

[Dvir]

The feces is probably diet related, doesn't look like an issue to me...clear mucoid feces is more of an issue.

Just for future reference: GC has metro in it, so you do not want to dose that and metro at the same time. Also, I generally run copper before GC, as copper stops protozoan diseases and those kill faster than flukes do, which is what GC works on.

I can see a couple of suspicious white spots on the fish....but if it is ich, the copper will help with that.

Jay

The reason I'm doing copper last is that I'm doing the 14 days copper method so I have to move them out of the QT and into DT after 14 days (if no symptoms are present). That's the tradeoff I chose between QT legth of time and number of QT tanks to use. So I start with GC and metro and copper is last. Plan is to switch to copper in case there are signs of ich/velvet, but haven't seen that happen yet in the 3 QT cycles I ran. Regarding GC/metro the protocol I'm doing is GC on days 1/7, metro on days 3/5/9 and 50% water change on days 6,10. Would be happy for feedback on this one.

Thanks!

 

[Dvir]

NOT Wrong on dry, no but not an adequate diet for this type of fish. I have many tangs and feed diets with meats and Greens.
I believe in your country, there is LRS foods. LRS herbivore diet is good. Sera is also available in middle east and diets with plankton, chopped krill and other fine meats offer color enhancers and fats for their dietary needs. There may be Shirley Aquatics’ foods frozen - and pacifica blend,

No LRS here
What type of Sera do you recommend?

I thought the 4 type of foods I use should cover the meaty part. For the green part I have the hikari seaweed extreme plus Nori + some live vegetables. Think this is not enough?

Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The reason I'm doing copper last is that I'm doing the 14 days copper method so I have to move them out of the QT and into DT after 14 days (if no symptoms are present). That's the tradeoff I chose between QT legth of time and number of QT tanks to use. So I start with GC and metro and copper is last. Plan is to switch to copper in case there are signs of ich/velvet, but haven't seen that happen yet in the 3 QT cycles I ran. Regarding GC/metro the protocol I'm doing is GC on days 1/7, metro on days 3/5/9 and 50% water change on days 6,10. Would be happy for feedback on this one.

Thanks!

That seems fine, since you aren't overlapping the metro.

I don't use metro as a bath anymore, it is pretty old school and just isn't as effective as copper or chloroquine. I will use it in carefully dosed, medicated gel diet (0.5% by weight). Adding it to the water can help a little against internal protozoans, because marine fish do drink water and thus swallow some metro at the same time, but I personally think that amount is too small.

Jay

 

[Dvir]

That seems fine, since you aren't overlapping the metro.

I don't use metro as a bath anymore, it is pretty old school and just isn't as effective as copper or chloroquine. I will use it in carefully dosed, medicated gel diet (0.5% by weight). Adding it to the water can help a little against internal protozoans, because marine fish do drink water and thus swallow some metro at the same time, but I personally think that amount is too small.

Jay

First time i'm reading hearing about chloroquine, is there a good source of information about it that you can point me at?

Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

First time i'm reading hearing about chloroquine, is there a good source of information about it that you can point me at?

Thanks

Here is an article that I wrote about it about 10 years ago. It is more difficult to source now after Covid.

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A “New” Drug for Treating Fish Diseases

While not a panacea or miracle drug, chloroquine is experiencing resurgence in popularity for use in fish-only aquariums and quarantine systems to treat a variety of problems ranging from Cryptocaryon to Aiptasia anemone infestations.

reefs.com

Jay

 

[Dvir]

Update: the fish has developed some sort of discoloration, attaching some pics and a video. Looks as if the fish is "loosing color". The change is very noticeable compared to the pictures in the 1st message of this thread. Other than that the fish is looking well and eating well. What could that be?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update: the fish has developed some sort of discoloration, attaching some pics and a video. Looks as if the fish is "loosing color". The change is very noticeable compared to the pictures in the 1st message of this thread. Other than that the fish is looking well and eating well. What could that be?

Emperor angels are well known for developing blanched skin as a response to various infections. Three causes are typical: marine ich, flukes and bacterial. Trouble is, nobody can tell you for certain which it is just by looking. Here is my best evaluation in descending order of probability:

1) Could be bacterial infection, secondary to either ich or flukes.
2) Flukes could have returned if your GC treatment wasn't spaced out correctly.
3) Could be ich since you only dosed copper for 14 days. I don't see any spots on the fins though.

Jay

 

[Dvir]

Jay, thank you so much for your help. It's so helpful for hobbyists such as myself. Advanced Marine Aquarium Techniques is already on the way, can't wait to start reading it

The fish is in therapeutic copper (2.6, copper power) for 6 days, since 4/18. It's still in copper and because of the yellow eye tang's black ich looks that all 3 fishes will remain in copper for quite some time. The black ich symptoms look a bit better on the tang but as you suggested will start a 30-day count only once the symptoms are completely gone. Would that be too long for the fish to be in copper?

This is the protocol I used for GC/metro. Dosage amount is per the instruction's manual:

Day 1 - GC
Day 3 - metro
Day 5 - metro
Day 6 - 50% water change
Day 7 - GC
Day 9 - metro
Day 10 - 50% water change
Day 11 - Starting to raise copper over 3 days to 2.5. After 14 days in copper with no symptoms, move the fish to DT.

BTW, I have nitrofurazone at my disposal. Bought it a while ago. Should I use it to fight the possible bacterial infection?
Would love your tip on how to continue this QT process in order to cover the 3 options you mentioned above (dose nitrofurazone? repeat GC treatment at the end of copper? other suggestions?)

Thanks!

 

[Dvir]

Forgot to mention that I also have ruby rally pro

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay, thank you so much for your help. It's so helpful for hobbyists such as myself. Advanced Marine Aquarium Techniques is already on the way, can't wait to start reading it

The fish is in therapeutic copper (2.6, copper power) for 6 days, since 4/18. It's still in copper and because of the yellow eye tang's black ich looks that all 3 fishes will remain in copper for quite some time. The black ich symptoms look a bit better on the tang but as you suggested will start a 30-day count only once the symptoms are completely gone. Would that be too long for the fish to be in copper?

This is the protocol I used for GC/metro. Dosage amount is per the instruction's manual:

Day 1 - GC
Day 3 - metro
Day 5 - metro
Day 6 - 50% water change
Day 7 - GC
Day 9 - metro
Day 10 - 50% water change
Day 11 - Starting to raise copper over 3 days to 2.5. After 14 days in copper with no symptoms, move the fish to DT.

BTW, I have nitrofurazone at my disposal. Bought it a while ago. Should I use it to fight the possible bacterial infection?
Would love your tip on how to continue this QT process in order to cover the 3 options you mentioned above (dose nitrofurazone? repeat GC treatment at the end of copper? other suggestions?)

Thanks!

I would treat with antibiotics as this is the most likely cause of the skin lesions, IMO. Nitrofurazone is used by a lot of people, I would try that.

Black ich is caused by a turbellarian worm and copper won't help with that, so you would want to treat with copper for 30 days beyond any symptoms of diseases that it treats (ich and velvet mostly). If you aren't seeing those symptoms, then the treatment is just 30 days total.

You might want to let the copper drop a bit to 2.4 or so.

Jay