Helio PTC 2nd heater stuck off until reboot

[mginster]

This AM when checking the tank I noticed my temp was down about .25 degrees below it’s minimum the Helio ever let it get to in the past month (78.35 down to 78.10). I am monitoring with a reef pi and historical showed this.

When I looked at the Helio it was heating, but only on one of the heaters (I have a 2x200w). It was like it couldn’t keep up with 1 and my ambient room temp at 66. When I restarted the Helio, both kicked on and have kept my temp back to the normal 78.35-78.7 range the rest of the day.

Has anyone else seen one heater not kicking on? Does anyone know the logic behind the actual controller? IE does it turn off one if it’s been on constant for X hours, turn off if that one heater is already to temp at that specific location etc?

 

[MnFish1]

First - I would double check your temperature. Second - each element of that heater regulates its temperature separately, so it's possible that one element is beginning to fail. Third have you done the recommended calibrations and cleanings?

Hope this helps - I used to own one but do not remember the exact way the 2 heaters interact.

 

[mginster]

First - I would double check your temperature. Second - each element of that heater regulates its temperature separately, so it's possible that one element is beginning to fail. Third have you done the recommended calibrations and cleanings?

Hope this helps - I used to own one but do not remember the exact way the 2 heaters interact.

Yeah, temperature was off and the unit even knew it, it was flashing between 78.0/78.4 when it normally sits at 79 all day.

I haven't cleaned them yet, but they are only a couple months in and are still very clean.

My thought is I possibly hit some kind of overload in one of them (although I would expect an error code). My ambient was 66 and 400w heating 120g with a 13 degree differential was probably maxing them out. I probably should have gone with 5w / gal instead of the 3w I read earlier.

 

[MnFish1]

Yeah, temperature was off and the unit even knew it, it was flashing between 78.0/78.4 when it normally sits at 79 all day.

I haven't cleaned them yet, but they are only a couple months in and are still very clean.

My thought is I possibly hit some kind of overload in one of them (although I would expect an error code). My ambient was 66 and 400w heating 120g with a 13 degree differential was probably maxing them out. I probably should have gone with 5w / gal instead of the 3w I read earlier.

Fyi - the 'official' (probably overkill) - is monthly to my recollection. I might check your manual. Second thought - with your ambient temp that low - could that be an issue (don't know the size of your tank) - of course that would not cause one heater not to come on

 

[mginster]

Fyi - the 'official' (probably overkill) - is monthly to my recollection. I might check your manual. Second thought - with your ambient temp that low - could that be an issue (don't know the size of your tank) - of course that would not cause one heater not to come on

Yeah my ambient of 66 is too low and was due to me goofing my smart AC schedule.

But yeah as you said, it should have kept both on still (just maybe not able to keep up). That is why my theory is I hit some kind of internal issue with constant use on one of them (which got reset on reboot).

 

[MnFish1]

PS - I guess there is a reason why all of the cable people say can you unplug, and re-plugin your equipment

 

[MnFish1]

Yeah my ambient of 66 is too low and was due to me goofing my smart AC schedule.

But yeah as you said, it should have kept both on still (just maybe not able to keep up). That is why my theory is I hit some kind of internal issue with constant use on one of them (which got reset on reboot).

Actually - it brought up an interesting question - as to exactly how this heater works. So - one sets the temperature then how do the 2 compete with each other?

 

[mginster]

PS - I guess there is a reason why all of the cable people say can you unplug, and re-plugin your equipment

That’s my answer in IT, did you reboot.

Actually - it brought up an interesting question - as to exactly how this heater works. So - one sets the temperature then how do the 2 compete with each other?

AFAIK they both send temps and the probe does. The controller uses them all I believe.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Where is your temp probe in relation to your heaters. With the IM heaters, the probe and the heaters which also have a sensor must be within a certain amount of degrees to each other otherwise they disengage as a safety feature. If the heaters were in different locations or if they were in the same location but the flow was weak. The probe should be in the same flow area as the heater elements. Some others have put them in other places such as overflows and it works for them. But generally it is important to have probe near the heaters.
In all likelihood, it was probably just the temp difference between the heater and the probe being too great.

 

[mginster]

Where is your temp probe in relation to your heaters. With the IM heaters, the probe and the heaters which also have a sensor must be within a certain amount of degrees to each other otherwise they disengage as a safety feature. If the heaters were in different locations or if they were in the same location but the flow was weak. The probe should be in the same flow area as the heater elements. Some others have put them in other places such as overflows and it works for them. But generally it is important to have probe near the heaters.
In all likelihood, it was probably just the temp difference between the heater and the probe being too great.

Temp probe is in first sump chamber, heaters in last, about 20" apart. This is how it was recommended to setup (temp probe slightly upstream of heaters).

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Temp probe is in first sump chamber, heaters in last, about 20" apart. This is how it was recommended to setup (temp probe slightly upstream of heaters).

When you feed, does the flow in your system still circulate? For example if your flow slows or stops in the first chamber and the heaters were on in the second chamber the temperature would rise in the second chamber but not in the first. This would give an out of bounds reading to the controller and shut down the heaters. Or at least that is what it is supposed to do.
This is what happened to me when I had the probe/heaters separate during the winter in a low temperature situation. Since I have put the probe in the same chamber not a problem anymore

 

[mginster]

When you feed, does the flow in your system still circulate? For example if your flow slows or stops in the first chamber and the heaters were on in the second chamber the temperature would rise in the second chamber but not in the first. This would give an out of bounds reading to the controller and shut down the heaters. Or at least that is what it is supposed to do.
This is what happened to me when I had the probe/heaters separate during the winter in a low temperature situation. Since I have put the probe in the same chamber not a problem anymore

I don't turn off to feed. Also, when this got in a bad state was in the morning before I did anything to the tank. Either way though, any bounds issues or temp differences that triggered the heater to not be on should have thrown an error code on the unit, which it didnt. Also it was just one heater of the two (bound issues would have killed both) so I am thinking that one is messing up somehow.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I don't turn off to feed. Also, when this got in a bad state was in the morning before I did anything to the tank. Either way though, any bounds issues or temp differences that triggered the heater to not be on should have thrown an error code on the unit, which it didnt. Also it was just one heater of the two (bound issues would have killed both) so I am thinking that one is messing up somehow.

Yes, it sounds like one of the units is having a problem. I would shoot IM a note, see if it can be warranted. I think you will have to reproduce the situation and send them a short video. They replaced my controller when my situation which I described earlier happened, but the audible alarm did not sound. Just a thought it might be your controller also.

 

[mginster]

Yes, it sounds like one of the units is having a problem. I would shoot IM a note, see if it can be warranted. I think you will have to reproduce the situation and send them a short video. They replaced my controller when my situation which I described earlier happened, but the audible alarm did not sound. Just a thought it might be your controller also.

Yep, that’s what they asked for also was a video of the issue, which hasn’t happened since I posted this. Their troubleshooting steps were pretty meh and basic, which I understand it’s not always easy troubleshooting over email.

I just wish they would provide the logic behind how it calculates temp and when it decides to throw errors.