Guess I need a new pump

[FDchase]

Was running my salt mixing pump and heater for a water change. Poked my finger in to get a little hint on temp, felt a tingle.

It was reading 80VAC before I took the picture. But I’m grounded on a stainless workbench on steel legs sitting on concrete so not the best ground source. Surprised that two different gfci outlets didn’t trip. Don’t need suggestions just don’t have other fish people to share with.

 

[tedfisher496]

Was running my salt mixing pump and heater for a water change. Poked my finger in to get a little hint on temp, felt a tingle.

It was reading 80VAC before I took the picture. But I’m grounded on a stainless workbench on steel legs sitting on concrete so not the best ground source. Surprised that two different gfci outlets didn’t trip. Don’t need suggestions just don’t have other fish people to share with.

their should not be 2 GFI receptacles on a circuit.

 

[FDchase]

My living room has 2 circuits and my garage has a few different circuits. They are separate.

 

[BZOFIQ]

their should not be 2 GFI receptacles on a circuit.

Why can't you have 2 GFI on a circuit - in parallel

 

[tedfisher496]

you can wire in parallel as long as you dont wire line to load from one to the other. Why would you want more than one anyway? I just get a gfci and be done.

 

[BZOFIQ]

you can wire in parallel as long as you dont wire line to load from one to the other. Why would you want more than one anyway? I just get a gfci and be done.

So you can split your loads across multiple GFCIs

Example, if a faulty pump trips one GFCI you only lose wha is's on that GFCI, the rest of the system still works on the other.

I have it set across 5 GFCIs on 3 separate breakers. One pops and the rest keeps running. People put it all one - way too risky.

 

[nereefpat]

You've probably checked, but it could also be the heater

 

[exnisstech]

Looks like it may be a hydor koralia in there? Every one I have had leaked electricity after using them for a while.

EDIT : mine never tripped a gfci when they leaked. I only new it when I would get zapped.

 

[Steve Zee]

GFCI’s work by measuring CURRENT not Voltage. Make sure your garage circuit has a GFCI while mixing water. And my pet peeve is why anyone puts relevance on a cheap meter with test leads dropped in the water. It literally means nothing. I can get 60 volts by sticking a probe in a potato on my kitchen counter. That’s with a True RMS meter.

Splitting up your current leakage over multiple GFCI’s is a good idea! Each GFCI is set to trip before the current imbalance reaches 6mA. That’s MILLI-AMPS. A normal house circuit is typically 15 or 20amps. So 6mA (6/1000th of an amp) is barely enough to cause any real current draw. However, because every component has some level of current leakage it degrades your protection circuit by making it even more sensitive. Meaning, if you have multiple devices plugged into one GFCI, you could have a leakage level of 4mA and now one device can trip the circuit with as little as 2mA. More GFCI’s spread this leakage over multiple branches and give more leeway for all devices.

And yes, It’s almost always the heater! Heating coils and expansion from the heat makes it hard to keep waterproof. Never skimp on your heater.

 

[KStatefan]

you can wire in parallel as long as you dont wire line to load from one to the other. Why would you want more than one anyway? I just get a gfci and be done.

So you do not have a single point of failure

 

[nereefpat]

Looks like it may be a hydor koralia in there? Every one I have had leaked electricity after using them for a while.

Mine too. All of mine eventually did it. I want to say 5 powerheads or so.

 

[FDchase]

GFCI’s work by measuring CURRENT not Voltage. Make sure your garage circuit has a GFCI while mixing water. And my pet peeve is why anyone puts relevance on a cheap meter with test leads dropped in the water. It literally means nothing. I can get 60 volts by sticking a probe in a potato on my kitchen counter. That’s with a True RMS meter.

Splitting up your current leakage over multiple GFCI’s is a good idea! Each GFCI is set to trip before the current imbalance reaches 6mA. That’s MILLI-AMPS. A normal house circuit is typically 15 or 20amps. So 6mA (6/1000th of an amp) is barely enough to cause any real current draw. However, because every component has some level of current leakage it degrades your protection circuit by making it even more sensitive. Meaning, if you have multiple devices plugged into one GFCI, you could have a leakage level of 4mA and now one device can trip the circuit with as little as 2mA. More GFCI’s spread this leakage over multiple branches and give more leeway for all devices.

And yes, It’s almost always the heater! Heating coils and expansion from the heat makes it hard to keep waterproof. Never skimp on your heater.

So the cheap meter gets the job done in the garage. Close enough to ohm out resistance on a throttle body position sensor. Testing this way also showed background voltage for the heater and 2vac on the pump, hardly anything. So yes it was a way to test what was letting off electricity without just feeling for a tingle. Now when I’m working on my elevators we use flukes, would I use my garage meter on a controller that cost more than I make in a year? No. Do I see a point in spending a bunch of money for basic testing around the house and on cars? No. It got the job done and showed me what was giving me the problem.

Also not sure why anyone would put a gfci outlets in series. Also more surprised me grounding out the system by poking my finger in while bare foot didn’t provide enough to trip it.

 

[Steve Zee]

But did that meter really show you what the problem was? Taking meter readings and making assumptions based on what you perceived to be correct is careless at best. Sorry.

And even suggesting that someone recommended installing GFCI’s in “SERIES” means you misunderstood the advice given because that was never suggested. I own a company the designs, builds, and maintains sophisticated residual current monitors (GFCIs) for broadcast, live events, and motion picture/television electrical systems. I literally troubleshoot residual current problems with hundreds of components all day long everyday. In addition, the last 20 years I’ve dedicated 1000’s of hours helping create national standards regarding how and where GFCI’s and shock protection should be implemented.
So, I just thought I would try and help and possibly keep someone from getting hurt.

So the cheap meter gets the job done in the garage. Close enough to ohm out resistance on a throttle body position sensor. Testing this way also showed background voltage for the heater and 2vac on the pump, hardly anything. So yes it was a way to test what was letting off electricity without just feeling for a tingle. Now when I’m working on my elevators we use flukes, would I use my garage meter on a controller that cost more than I make in a year? No. Do I see a point in spending a bunch of money for basic testing around the house and on cars? No. It got the job done and showed me what was giving me the problem.

Also not sure why anyone would put a gfci outlets in series. Also more surprised me grounding out the system by poking my finger in while bare foot didn’t provide enough to trip it.

 

[FDchase]

Second part wasn’t for you. It was a comment on previous posts.

Also I’m not trying to be condescending. Just explaining that I’m not trying to trouble shoot complex electrical systems. Just find what piece of equipment is failing and my test worked. Granted my ground was bad yesterday so here are results from testing again. Pump unplugged

pump plugged in

Even my voltage detector starts alarming the second it gets close to the bin. Just trying to find a simple leak from a bad pump and thought I would share as nobody I talk to would care.

 

[nereefpat]

We care. Seems to me that you figured it out. Throw out the bad pump. I've had lots of powerheads do the same thing. Those style seem to fail eventually.

 

[Steve Zee]

I care. In fact, I just wanted you to be safe since working inside a tank with a bad component is dangerous. So I wanted to make sure you are using a GFCI or you are separating yourself from the water while trouble shooting.

By the way, the tingle is likely less than 6mA. GFCI's do not keep you from getting shocked. They keep you from receiving a dangerous shock. In the household standard "Class A" protection that is below the "Let Go Threshold" that covers everyone including toddlers. The "let go threshold" for adult men is around 20mA. Still not much but double that at around 50mA and you have respiratory arrest.

 

[exnisstech]

Don’t need suggestions just don’t have other fish people to share with

The OP just wanted to share with like minded people not saying no one here cares. No harm in that. My Gals eyes glaze over after a minute or two when I'm trying to explain something tank related lol

 

[FDchase]

Makes me wonder if the one in the tank is bad too. It’s just as old.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I’d get a 24 Vdc Pump for your mixing container, they are a lot Safer, and will quickly pay for themselves in Energy Savings. Also I found I don’t need a Heater in my mixing container, even during the Winter, when it can drop to 66F verses a 76F Aquarium Temperature. There just isn’t enough temperature change, at up to a 25% Water Change to be concerned about.

 

[FDchase]

I was planning on that. Getting a sump pump style so it’s easier to do a water change too. Heater is left over from my old tank. I used 5 gallon jugs stored inside and a 5 gallon WC dropped the temp of my tank about 10 degrees one time, so heater was necessary for that.