Hello all, I’ve got a 30 gallon cube with a sump and a skimmer. I’m running a viparspectra light with mostly blues. The tank is about six months old and is stocked with a starry blenny, waspfish, engineer goby, flasher wrasse, and a clown. For my cuc I’ve got a conch, a sea hare and about 5 turbos. My nitrates and phosphates are both reading zeros but I know that’s probably not right because I have hair algae everywhere, I know it’s not bryopsis. The sea hare is eating it but even he can’t keep up. I’ve taken the rocks out three times and scrubbed them with hydrogen peroxide on a tooth brush but every time it comes back. I was told that algae can be caused by an imbalance with nitrates and phosphates and maybe my phosphates are high compared to my nitrates. I was running NoPox but I quit. I’m considering dosing nitrates. I don’t know, I’ve never had algae this bad and don’t know what to do.
Green Hair algae taking over
- Thread starter tbasinger
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Such a frustrating situation.
If the algae is very green, growing quickly and there is a large amount, then the only way that this can happen is when the algae is getting plenty of nitrogen (and phosphorous). I don’t see the logic in dosing nitrate given how well the algae is growing.
Why did you stop dosing NOPOX?
Hair Algae uses nitrogen & phosphate in a particular ratio, but that doesn't mean that they must be present in the water column in that same ratio. There just has to be enough of each. It would appear that you have enough of each.
Remember too that algae doesn't need specifically nitrate. It needs some form of nitrogen. It will use ammonia, created by the fishes biological waste process from the food you feed, to get that needed nitrogen if it is available. That's why you are not seeing any nitrate.
Phosphate can be a byproduct of the food you feed and varies depending on the type of food. There are other sources including the water you use to make artificial salt water and even leaching from the rock and sand.
The other requirements are carbon from CO2 and light. Some trace elements are required also. Iron comes to mind.
Carbon dosing works by creating bacteria that bind the nitrogen and inorganic phosphate so that it is not available to the algae. Unfortunately, it too needs nitrogen and phosphate in a certain ratio to work. If the algae is limiting the availability of the nutrients, it is hard for the bacteria to compete.
I would suggest you manually remove as much algae as possible and begin carbon dosing again. You can also cut or greatly reduce the light. This will cause the algae to use less of the available ammonia and phosphate and help the bacteria to get established. I would not use peroxide. While it does kill the algae present, it probably also kills any biofilms that have been established. These biofilms compete with algae for space to grow. Killing them provides more real-estate for new algae to grow back. This is a phase that will pass. You just need to keep it under control and have patience.
Remember too that algae doesn't need specifically nitrate. It needs some form of nitrogen. It will use ammonia, created by the fishes biological waste process from the food you feed, to get that needed nitrogen if it is available. That's why you are not seeing any nitrate.
Phosphate can be a byproduct of the food you feed and varies depending on the type of food. There are other sources including the water you use to make artificial salt water and even leaching from the rock and sand.
The other requirements are carbon from CO2 and light. Some trace elements are required also. Iron comes to mind.
Carbon dosing works by creating bacteria that bind the nitrogen and inorganic phosphate so that it is not available to the algae. Unfortunately, it too needs nitrogen and phosphate in a certain ratio to work. If the algae is limiting the availability of the nutrients, it is hard for the bacteria to compete.
I would suggest you manually remove as much algae as possible and begin carbon dosing again. You can also cut or greatly reduce the light. This will cause the algae to use less of the available ammonia and phosphate and help the bacteria to get established. I would not use peroxide. While it does kill the algae present, it probably also kills any biofilms that have been established. These biofilms compete with algae for space to grow. Killing them provides more real-estate for new algae to grow back. This is a phase that will pass. You just need to keep it under control and have patience.
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Solved my GHA by overdosing NoPox. Did get white slime which went away once I stopped dosing. NoPox the only solution that worked for me and I tried urchins, margaritas, hermits and astrea. All preferred the turf but not hair.
FWIW, I use manual removal, patience and algae eaters like urchins, sally lightfoot crabs and thin stripe hermits.
In reef systems Nitrogen is available as particulate, dissolved organic and dissolved inorganic forms and the same for phosphorus. But we can only test for the inorganic forms so while you are testing 0 there can still be enough available.
Resaerch has shown PO4 levels below .03 mg/l can keep seriously impact corals photobiology so I would attempt to raise PO4 to at least that level.
I would not add any labile DOC, aka, carbon dosing. I know it's popular for reducing N and P but there's lots of research showing it can have very deliterious effects on corals and reef systems.
More info on how you set up your tank and what you are doing for maintnenance and dosing would be helpful. Here's some links if you're interested.
www.reef2reef.com
"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems
Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes
Microbial view of Coral Decline
Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
BActeria and Sponges
Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
15 Answers
In reef systems Nitrogen is available as particulate, dissolved organic and dissolved inorganic forms and the same for phosphorus. But we can only test for the inorganic forms so while you are testing 0 there can still be enough available.
Resaerch has shown PO4 levels below .03 mg/l can keep seriously impact corals photobiology so I would attempt to raise PO4 to at least that level.
I would not add any labile DOC, aka, carbon dosing. I know it's popular for reducing N and P but there's lots of research showing it can have very deliterious effects on corals and reef systems.
More info on how you set up your tank and what you are doing for maintnenance and dosing would be helpful. Here's some links if you're interested.
Sponsored - Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock
Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.
www.reef2reef.com
"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems
Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes
Microbial view of Coral Decline
Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
BActeria and Sponges
Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
15 Answers
the tank is overstocked, likely over fed and under exported
post a pic of the tank and we can verify
the scrubbing with a brush and peroxide spreads algae, doesn't really help it/smashes bits of algae into the rock so that explains why that aspect of care didn't work
the clean up crew present isn't helping, but is adding to waste
let's see the sandbed if any that's been uptaking all this compound waste so far/need pics to help vs any other details
no mention of topoff water: is this ro only, or tap water, or is make water ro+di verified clean and good resins/not exhausted? how good is the source water
in your posted pic, we can get an idea if your light is way too bright for the tank maturity level
post a pic of the tank and we can verify
the scrubbing with a brush and peroxide spreads algae, doesn't really help it/smashes bits of algae into the rock so that explains why that aspect of care didn't work
the clean up crew present isn't helping, but is adding to waste
let's see the sandbed if any that's been uptaking all this compound waste so far/need pics to help vs any other details
no mention of topoff water: is this ro only, or tap water, or is make water ro+di verified clean and good resins/not exhausted? how good is the source water
in your posted pic, we can get an idea if your light is way too bright for the tank maturity level
Green hair algae is limited primarily by 3 things. Competition, predation, and resources. Competition from coralline, macroalgae, corals zooxanthellae, and bacteria all add competition. Predation by a variety of algavores is the most important in my opinion, because all tanks will eventually have some competition, and no properly kept / healthy reef tank is so limited in available nitrogen and phosphate can't be gained from the water column (+ this also applies to light). To me it sounds like the unchecked value is predation.
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I’ve probably got around 15 inches of fish in around 35 gallons of total system water. I feed 1 cube of mysis a day. Every week I do a 25% water change. The hair algae isn’t green, it’s very tan except for a few places. I will post pictures when I get home
Can you post pics of tank under white lighting ?
Additionally is this tank at or near a window?
Get rid of a couple fish and replace that junk rock with ocean liverock from KP aquatics or Tampa bay saltwater and your algae problem will be gone.
Is this tank at or near a window?
Seeing no coral on this rock, I would place it in a container of tank water and pull off as much as you can by hand and scrub the rest with a firm toothbrush and some 3% hydrogen peroxide.
Return to tank, reduce white light intensity and number of hours of white lighting and add some snails such as :
Astrea
cerith
turbo grazer
trochus
A Pencil urchin
8-10 Caribbean blue leg hermits
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?
What is your phosphate level?
When i see this the first thing i think is are you running a fuge or an ats? Me personally i wouldnt run a tank with out this especially an ats as it puts the hair algae elsewhere besides your tank. Easy to control the nutrient uptake with light periods. If you dont have a sump there are hang on the back style fuges and ats's.
What dosage did you use for the overdose?
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4 mil daily on 16 gallons. Supposed to max out around 3 on 25 gallons. Bottomed out my nitrates or kept them below 10 ppm. Phosphates stayed under 0.25 ppm but since this is a test tank I don't need more precision than that although based on color I'm guessing near bottom. I've bottomed out my phospates and know what that looks like. GHA gone, however. Did continue to overfeed and no dinos but did get cyano in a low flow area and that dreaded white slime. Every correction tends to have it's own side affect(s).
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