I forgot about the Sicces, these are great pumps as well although not as energy efficient as the DCs
There is a D.C. Version
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I forgot about the Sicces, these are great pumps as well although not as energy efficient as the DCs
There is a D.C. Version
Quiet One has to be the best priced/most quiet/most efficient option for most installations.
Your dimensions total to a little more than 100 gallons.
Unless you're doing something old-fashioned or otherwise interesting with the system, 10x flow is a little more than double what you need for most cases.
2x-4x would be a more reasonable range, so anywhere from 200 GPH to 400 GPH would be fine and appropriate.
If you're just doing a more-or-less straight shot up 5', then a $46 QuietOne 2200 @ 38 watts would do it, delivering about 350 GPH. 3 year warranty.
A comparable Sicce, Mag or Eheim would be equally good options IMO, depending on priorities.
If you have money to spend on an armor plated cadillac, then go for an Eheim. A Model 1060 would get you in the door at 250 GPH. A Model 1260 delivers more than enough at 420 GPH. These Eheims are dead silent and last forever....definitely the best return pump there is when the flow and budget fit.
It's not going to ruin anyone's day if they aren't matched – in a closed system, dwell time is irrelevant to a large extent – but it's a sensible target for them to be close. In practice, considering a "normally oversized" skimmer, that target usually winds up being around 2x to 4x the display size. So the actual flow rate through the return pump would be fine in the same range – 2x to 4x the display. In theory, the skimmer is processing the water 1:1 as is goes through the sump that way.
Which, again, is mostly not relevant in a closed system....it's of utmost importance in a single-pass filter like an RODI.
Not as far as we know! @gcarroll has unknowingly and unsuspectingly stood in for me at trade shows upon occasion though!
No point arguing as you still don't get it.When you learn how to read, then you can reply. I'm saving half the power over the AC pumps that I had. I admitted that my AC pumps were probably the worst consumers. Reality is, I am saving half the power over the Iwaki AC pumps I was using. Not all AC pumps are efficient, if you think they are all the same, think again. The Iwaki was 36o watts, the DCs I have each run 80 watts, I have 2. I gained redundancy and saved half the power. Seemed like a win win, and I still think so.
Glad you think your getting saving from a DC. Guess you didn't read the link provided on the other page.
My sump is in the basement.
Agreed ! Wattage is the bare minimum. But if they can't complete with wattage as a start then they are already at a disadvantage.True there is more to it than wattage on the pump. (Even assuming the advertised flow charts are 100% correct.)
If you're in a (typical?) cool climate and/or keep a 72ºF HVAC house, then your tank probably needs just about all the heat it's getting to maintain tropical temperatures.
It's likely that a more efficient pump will simply cause heaters to run more frequently.
But on the other hand, if you're running a heat-loaded system lit by T5's in a canopy a 400 watt return pump in the stand,\ you live in Miami and you use a chiller on the system but barely run the AC.....then you will probably save some by being power-efficient since you'll ALSO be making the chiller run less. Switching to LED would make an even bigger difference in a case like that.
Thank you all for your input. I think for now I am going to go with something simple like the Eheim 1260 until I have an established tank and a better understanding of what my setup will like in the near future and then change accordingly or as I deem necessary.
Agreed ! Wattage is the bare minimum. But if they can't complete with wattage as a start then they are already at a disadvantage.
Now not all AC pumps are efficient. But if you compare a pump such as Fluval SP series to a DC measured at the wall which includes the power supply which most manufacturers don't list, your not that far ahead perhaps even behind. That's if flow with relatively low head pressure is a concern. On the other side of the spectrum, you can't beat an Iwaki etc for head pressure, but different ball game here. Only an Abyzz can compete there.
Someone I know test many of these DC pumps and non did the advertised flow or head pressure stated except for Abyzz.
Some are exaggerated slightly but most are exaggerated by a large margin such as the 33% mention. I personally don't like to support that practice.
Eheims and Sicces test were all within + or - 5% with most being even closer than that.
Vectras on the DC end are one of the closestly matched to their specs. in the price range.
It turns out AC and DC can be pretty close in lots of instances....especially if you count energy use as a cost in dollars and include the pumps purchase price. (This leaves aside heating, where you have to consider whether heaters are using up the power you've saved....if you're in a temperate/cool climate, chances are that you're not saving any power by using a lower-power return pump. Folks in the far-south can probably do a little better, but even then the economics of these Quiet One pumps can work out pretty well.
For example I think a DCP5000 would give improved flow over the Quiet One 2200 in this application, but...way more flow than is needed, the DC pump costs about double the price, and it uses about the same power.
DCP series flow chart from am-zone:
2200 flow chart from drfost (Q1 = built-in flow control open; Q2 = closed):
Based on some experiences I've read about, it seems like flow ratings on at least some DC pumps may be optimistic – if so, that would make the comparison even closer.
The one pretty universal advantage DC pumps seem to have is head height....for them to claim 500 GPH at 9' on the DCP5000 is impressive, if true. At that height, you'd need a Quiet One 5000 @ 123 watts and that would give you a bit over 600 GPH. Price is similar between the DCP5000 and Quiet One 5000 though. For most folks with a sump under their tank, this extra height isn't an advantage though.
(BTW, these Quiet Ones are the Sicce Syncra Pro design, but made in china for Lifegard Aquatics.....same 3 year warranty as the old italian made models.)
I do love the passion this hobby brings out even in something simple as AC vs AC to DC to AC (DC pumps are not really DC as most people think) pumps.
What type of overflow systems are people using with controllable returns? As I said I have AC pumps with ball valve for sump circulation that I can change if I want, but I also use bean animal style overflow and have no desire to mess with the flow rate and play with the gate valve again.
It's not going to ruin anyone's day if they aren't matched – in a closed system, dwell time is irrelevant to a large extent – but it's a sensible target for them to be close. In practice, considering a "normally oversized" skimmer, that target usually winds up being around 2x to 4x the display size. So the actual flow rate through the return pump would be fine in the same range – 2x to 4x the display. In theory, the skimmer is processing the water 1:1 as is goes through the sump that way.
Which, again, is mostly not relevant in a closed system....it's of utmost importance in a single-pass filter like an RODI.
Agreed. A skimmer is going to skim what its going to skim regardless of flow. In other words, if the flow through the skimmer was 10 times flow of the return that doesn't mean it produces skimmate that fast. Water will just flow in and out of the skimmer 10 times faster that's all. For me, I focus more on how efficient it is at producing bubbles and ultimately skimmate. But of course within reason. You don't want a huge skimmer in a small tank