Golden puffer

[ss88]

Second attempt with a golden puffer.

Question:
Aware these specimens are sensitive to copper, refusing food today. How long should I wait before switching to chloroquine phosphate? Can isolate in dedicated 50 gallon tank. I have the medication on hand.

History:
Received specimen @ 16:00 2/26/24 after 8hrs of transport (total time from tank to tank). Acquired from local importer. Imported this month from Central America.
Fish accepted a generous amount of food yesterday around 22:00. Overall health looks good.
Immediately started copper power treatment yesterday as some other specimens are presenting with Cryptocaryon irritans.

Copper levels
17:00 2/26/24 1.59ppm
21:03 2/26/24 2:12ppm
23:00 2/26/24 2.29ppm

Offered food today 2/27/24 13:20 and fish showed no interest.

Video and pictures taken today today 2/27/24 13:20.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

so cool

 

[vetteguy53081]

Second attempt with a golden puffer.

Question:
Aware these specimens are sensitive to copper, refusing food today. How long should I wait before switching to chloroquine phosphate? Can isolate in dedicated 50 gallon tank. I have the medication on hand.

History:
Received specimen @ 16:00 2/26/24 after 8hrs of transport (total time from tank to tank). Acquired from local importer. Imported this month from Central America.
Fish accepted a generous amount of food yesterday around 22:00. Overall health looks good.
Immediately started copper power treatment yesterday as some other specimens are presenting with Cryptocaryon irritans.

Copper levels
17:00 2/26/24 1.59ppm
21:03 2/26/24 2:12ppm
23:00 2/26/24 2.29ppm

Offered food today 2/27/24 13:20 and fish showed no interest.

Video and pictures taken today today 2/27/24 13:20.

They can be and I see you are ramping the copper which is a huge no. Ramping allows any potential disease to take control of the fish. While coppersafe is best, I prefer and recommend chloroquine phosphate for treatment and even General cure
If other fish are showing signs of parasites, I Highly recommend treating them in a separate tank in which they will likely respond safer to Coppersafe treatment

 

[ss88]

They can be and I see you are ramping the copper which is a huge no. Ramping allows any potential disease to take control of the fish. While coppersafe is best, I prefer and recommend chloroquine phosphate for treatment and even General cure

Did you look at the time intervals? Target levels achieved in hours, not days. Its to prevent over shooting the target therapeutic levels. Much better then accidentally over dosing!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Did you look at the time intervals? Target levels achieved in hours, not days. Its to prevent over shooting the target therapeutic levels. Much better then accidentally over dosing!

Yes, but appeared to be a trend if you were headed to 2.5 as you were bumping every 4 hours. If 2.25 was your target, not an issue. The main key at hand- Copper not recommended unless absolutely necessary. Even hyposalinity will work with puffers

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Did you look at the time intervals? Target levels achieved in hours, not days. Its to prevent over shooting the target therapeutic levels. Much better then accidentally over dosing!

No issues with that short of a ramp up, it does help achieve more accurate dosing. I'm guessing you have a Hanna meter?

I don't use copper power, I use coppersafe, but they are essentially the same product as far as I can tell. The 2.3 ppm dose shouldn't be an issue, but you could give the puffer another 24 hours to see if it starts feeding again, and then if not, back off to 2.0 ppm

I've run this species through coppersafe with no issues, but they are prone to hunger strikes for a variety of reasons, they also come in with parasites that we don't typically see on other reef fish.

 

[ss88]

If other fish are showing signs of parasites, I Highly recommend treating them in a separate tank in which they will likely respond safer to Coppersafe treatment

Trophont are already dropping off infected specimens. The infected specimens look slightly better today. Now that therapeutic levels are achieved, it will be hard for the tomites to find a new host.

Back to original question.
Is the fish just adjusting or experiencing satiety?
Or should I isolate the golden puffer now and commence treatment with chloroquine phosphate?

 

[ss88]

Yes, but appeared to be a trend if you were headed to 2.5 as you were bumping every 4 hours. If 2.25 was your target, not an issue. The main key at hand- Copper not recommended unless absolutely necessary. Even hyposalinity will work with puffers

Correct was shooting for 2.25ppm.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Trophont are already dropping off infected specimens. The infected specimens look slightly better today. Now that therapeutic levels are achieved, it will be hard for the tomites to find a new host.

Back to original question.
Is the fish just adjusting or experiencing satiety?
Or should I isolate the golden puffer now and commence treatment with chloroquine phosphate?

fish may be showing discomfort. Increase Oxygen with airstone. If you ask what I would do if it were my fish... I would have isolated it but for many aquarists, its not always an option

 

[ss88]

I'm guessing you have a Hanna meter?

Yes.

The 2.3 ppm dose shouldn't be an issue, but you could give the puffer another 24 hours to see if it starts feeding again, and then if not, back off to 2.0 ppm

Ok,
Below 2ppm is not considered therapeutic?
Factor in accuracy or hanna meter and precipitation, even with daily testing.
Should I target 2.05 to 2.10 ppm?

they are prone to hunger strikes for a variety of reasons

Examples please.

they also come in with parasites that we don't typically see on other reef fish.

Can you be a bit more specific as to the types?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes.

Ok,
Below 2ppm is not considered therapeutic?
Factor in accuracy or hanna meter and precipitation, even with daily testing.
Should I target 2.05 to 2.10 ppm?

Examples please.

Can you be a bit more specific as to the types?

It isn't like if the copper power drops a bit below 2.0 it stops working, or that you need to "reset the timer" or anything like that, it just works much better on active infections above 2.25, up to 2.5. You could target 2.05, I'm just trying to see if backing the copper off a bit will jump start the puffer's appetite.

These puffers come in with a variety of other parasites - leeches, different flukes than we usually see and then copepods. Not all of them do, just that with Arothron puffers, you're apt to run into odd parasites now and again.

 

[ss88]

It isn't like if the copper power drops a bit below 2.0 it stops working, or that you need to "reset the timer" or anything like that, it just works much better on active infections above 2.25, up to 2.5. You could target 2.05, I'm just trying to see if backing the copper off a bit will jump start the puffer's appetite.

These puffers come in with a variety of other parasites - leeches, different flukes than we usually see and then copepods. Not all of them do, just that with Arothron puffers, you're apt to run into odd parasites now and again.

@Jay Hemdal thank you for the information.
How would one treat for those typically?

What I have available.

fenbendazole
praziquantel
albendazole
nitazoxanida

 

[ss88]

Update.

Specimen started eating again normally and accepted 1 whole clam and half shrimp.
No changes of any type made to tank.


@Jay Hemdal
I will note, yesterday at lights out, the specimen passed some very solid fecal material, almost undigested food. Immediately afterwards, he appeared to be searching for food once again. Is this really a possibility of constipation? You mentioned hunger strikes, how long should I wait before being concerned about refusing food?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update.

Specimen started eating again normally and accepted 1 whole clam and half shrimp.
No changes of any type made to tank.


@Jay Hemdal
I will note, yesterday at lights out, the specimen passed some very solid fecal material, almost undigested food. Immediately afterwards, he appeared to be searching for food once again. Is this really a possibility of constipation? You mentioned hunger strikes, how long should I wait before being concerned about refusing food?

I can't say if this was constipation or not. However, that it started eating again seems to indicate that this was a transient issue, so take the win!