Golden headed moray Siv

[Kyuubi]

Hi so I’ve had this little golden headed moray for a few months now, and he’s eating the live foods fine (pre-quarantined Chromis, saltwater glass minnows, and other small schooling fish I’ve harvested from the ocean legally) but today I noticed bumps on his head near his eyes, is this normal or some kind of infection?
Eel was also pre-quarantined with medication before going in the tank. Won’t even look at frozen food unfortunately but I’m able to supply live foods for the moment. (Sorry about the chromis, they’re adorable but also his favorite )

If you know what this is, why it’s happening, and how I can treat it please let me know!!! He is the only inhabitant of the tank besides his live food and there are currently 5 chromis and 4 glass minnows in the 100gal tank (total water volume)

 

[fishguy242]

@lion king

 

[lion king]

@Jay Hemdal

Yeah it does look like some sort of infection, Jay is more experienced in that area.

I highly recommend to stop feeding marine fish, unless you qt each entire batch, you will eventually transfer some sort of disease or parasite. If you use meds you are basically poisoning your eel. Mollies are a much better option for a live feeder fish. Have you tried a variety of dead foods, including squid and octopus, cut more into slivers than chunks and use a clear feeding stick. Yellow heads are usually agreeable to dead foods.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That isn't normal, but sorry, I don't know what that is. It looks like blisters under the skin. I agree with @lion king , feeding live marine fish is risky.

Jay

 

[lion king]

@Jay Hemdal doesn't it look like it is affecting his eyes. You know me I'm usually no meds, but this looks like something I wouldn't let go. Do you think a broad spectrum antibiotic would be in order. Yet it could also be parasitic?

My 1st course of action would be to make sure water quality is optimum, stop using chromis and switch to mollies. Watch it closely and maybe try something like seachem paraguard, what do you think.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal doesn't it look like it is affecting his eyes. You know me I'm usually no meds, but this looks like something I wouldn't let go. Do you think a broad spectrum antibiotic would be in order. Yet it could also be parasitic?

My 1st course of action would be to make sure water quality is optimum, stop using chromis and switch to mollies. Watch it closely and maybe try something like seachem paraguard, what do you think.

The apparent rapid onset (in a day or two?) tends to rule out most infections that would develop more slowly. Supersaturation can cause gas bubbles under a fish's skin, and that can happen overnight, but the other fish would be affected by that.

I'm not a fan of paraguard. They apparently changed the formulation and it doesn't work well for me anyway.

Green morays develop a weird dermatitis that is bacterial. I've seen it in one of ours (it died). Here is a link to the paper that describes it:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11937713_Granulomatous_Skin_Lesions_in_Moray_Eels_Caused_by_a_Novel_Mycobacterium_Species_Related_toMycobacterium_triplex

Jay

 

[Kyuubi]

@Jay Hemdal

Yeah it does look like some sort of infection, Jay is more experienced in that area.

I highly recommend to stop feeding marine fish, unless you qt each entire batch, you will eventually transfer some sort of disease or parasite. If you use meds you are basically poisoning your eel. Mollies are a much better option for a live feeder fish. Have you tried a variety of dead foods, including squid and octopus, cut more into slivers than chunks and use a clear feeding stick. Yellow heads are usually agreeable to dead foods.

Yes I do quarantine each batch of live food for two months with medication. I’ve tried wiggling around all types of dead food with no luck. How long does it take to create saltwater mollies? I’ve never had any or attempted to switch to saltwater.

 

[Kyuubi]

Meds I use for the feeder fish: chloroquine Phosphate, ich x, prazi pro

Meds I used on the eel for quarantine: ttm & Chloroquine phosphate

As of today he still has the bumps and hasn’t eaten the feeder fish since I’ve noticed them. Hopefully he’s munching on some of the shrimp I have in there but it’s hard to count all the shrimp to see if any had been eaten. I’ve tried soaking dead food in garlic as well and he’s turned his nose at it too

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Meds I use for the feeder fish: chloroquine Phosphate, ich x, prazi pro

Meds I used on the eel for quarantine: ttm & Chloroquine phosphate

As of today he still has the bumps and hasn’t eaten the feeder fish since I’ve noticed them. Hopefully he’s munching on some of the shrimp I have in there but it’s hard to count all the shrimp to see if any had been eaten. I’ve tried soaking dead food in garlic as well and he’s turned his nose at it too

Morays can survive extended hunger strikes, but you need to try and figure out the root cause and resolve it. I doubt that it is eating shrimp when you aren't looking, it it isn't stick feeding, it probably isn't eating at all. Did you look at the Mycobacterium paper? That is a distinct possibility. Trouble is, it isn't really treatable. This may, however, be a result of another bacteria. In that case, you might be able to treat it in a hospital tank with a gram negative and gram positive antibiotic (Maracyn 1 and Neoplex would be two good choices).

Jay

 

[Kyuubi]

Morays can survive extended hunger strikes, but you need to try and figure out the root cause and resolve it. I doubt that it is eating shrimp when you aren't looking, it it isn't stick feeding, it probably isn't eating at all. Did you look at the Mycobacterium paper? That is a distinct possibility. Trouble is, it isn't really treatable. This may, however, be a result of another bacteria. In that case, you might be able to treat it in a hospital tank with a gram negative and gram positive antibiotic (Maracyn 1 and Neoplex would be two good choices).

Jay

He doesn’t look to have those lesions on his side like in the paper, the only odd thing are the bubbles. Ever since I got the eel he hasn’t eaten dead food for me that’s why I resorted to live foods

 

[Kyuubi]

The bubbles aren’t tumors or something like that right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The bubbles aren’t tumors or something like that right?

I have never seen tumors develop in that number.

Do they seem to be fluid filled, like blisters?

Jay

 

[bnord]

am impressed with your dedication to this little guy - QT'd feed fish is true dedication - best of luck with it.

 

[lion king]

Yes I do quarantine each batch of live food for two months with medication. I’ve tried wiggling around all types of dead food with no luck. How long does it take to create saltwater mollies? I’ve never had any or attempted to switch to saltwater.

Mollies are brackish fish and easily adapt to full saltwater. I keep my molly tank at 1.013, there is no need to keep any higher and no need for acclimation to the eel tank for feeding. Mollies are complete food with a similar fat and protein profile as marine fish. I have kept my predators for decades feeding mollies. Mollies are usually kept in fresh water at the lfs and will not carry marine diseases,

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Mollies are brackish fish and easily adapt to full saltwater. I keep my molly tank at 1.013, there is no need to keep any higher and no need for acclimation to the eel tank for feeding. Mollies are complete food with a similar fat and protein profile as marine fish. I have kept my predators for decades feeding mollies. Mollies are usually kept in fresh water at the lfs and will not carry marine diseases,

One thing though - freshwater and marine fish are physiologically the same in terms of bodily fluids, so mollies can transfer internal diseases. Mycobacteria is one (but even frozen seafoods can have that). Nematodes, coccidea and cestodes are rarer, but possible.
Amyloodinium and many bacteria can also live in a wide range of salinities.


Jay

 

[lion king]

One thing though - freshwater and marine fish are physiologically the same in terms of bodily fluids, so mollies can transfer internal diseases. Mycobacteria is one (but even frozen seafoods can have that). Nematodes, coccidea and cestodes are rarer, but possible.
Amyloodinium and many bacteria can also live in a wide range of salinities.


Jay

Possible, I have examined this thoroughly. I've been feeding live mollies to dozens of predators for more than 20 years. I have had as much as 13 pedators at once eating from the same source. I have never had any indication of any of what you've indicated or any indication of an internal disease with parasites or any thing else.

Edit: When it comes to feeding a fish/eel that has to be fed live, either because they won't eat dead food or they have been proven not to survive long on a dead only diet; for a fish eater, mollies and guppies are the safest choices and will provide the proper nutrition for longterm success.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Possible, I have examined this thoroughly. I've been feeding live mollies to dozens of predators for more than 20 years. I have had as much as 13 pedators at once eating from the same source. I have never had any indication of any of what you've indicated or any indication of an internal disease with parasites or any thing else.

Edit: When it comes to feeding a fish/eel that has to be fed live, either because they won't eat dead food or they have been proven not to survive long on a dead only diet; for a fish eater, mollies and guppies are the safest choices and will provide the proper nutrition for longterm success.

I agree that mollies are usually fine, but in the context of feeding live marine feeders from wild collections, even with a typical quarantine for external issues it is simply too risky. I train all fish over to non-living food and then use frozen seafoods with supplements, or sometimes prepared foods. One of my staff was really good at that and even got a trumpet fish feeding on prepared foods, something I had never seen before.

Jay

 

[lion king]

I agree that mollies are usually fine, but in the context of feeding live marine feeders from wild collections, even with a typical quarantine for external issues it is simply too risky. I train all fish over to non-living food and then use frozen seafoods with supplements, or sometimes prepared foods. One of my staff was really good at that and even got a trumpet fish feeding on prepared foods, something I had never seen before.

Jay

Many of the fish I have kept for a decade like dwarf and medium bodied lions, scorps like the rhino, the ribbon eel; usually do not live long on a dead only diet. Not saying it isn't possible, but these species die at extreme rate pretty quickly when fed a dead only diet. And some, no matter what, will never accept any, or enough, or enough of the necessary dead foods to sustain long term.

In reference to this post, the fimbriated eel usually is agreeable to a variety of dead foods. I have posted many threads of the various dead foods that will provide the proper nutrients and low thiaminese to a long life. In this post I was giving the safest option for live fish feeding.

 

[Kyuubi]

Many of the fish I have kept for a decade like dwarf and medium bodied lions, scorps like the rhino, the ribbon eel; usually do not live long on a dead only diet. Not saying it isn't possible, but these species die at extreme rate pretty quickly when fed a dead only diet. And some, no matter what, will never accept any, or enough, or enough of the necessary dead foods to sustain long term.

In reference to this post, the fimbriated eel usually is agreeable to a variety of dead foods. I have posted many threads of the various dead foods that will provide the proper nutrients and low thiaminese to a long life. In this post I was giving the safest option for live fish feeding.

Right now I have a tub of live feeder fish that are finished with quarantine in my garage, should I finish those first before I start the mollies? I’ve been catching the feeder fish months before I got the eel so I could have some out of quarantine when it came in

 

[lion king]

Right now I have a tub of live feeder fish that are finished with quarantine in my garage, should I finish those first before I start the mollies? I’ve been catching the feeder fish months before I got the eel so I could have some out of quarantine when it came in

It's not like I have never fed damsels or chromis, it's just very risky. If you are as sure as you can be, it's a judgement call.

I am still voncerned that we haven't given you any answers to your intial concern. I hate exposing eels to meds, with the exception of gc or prazi, so I likely wouldn't just throw meds at then without knowing what I was treating. Eels can have issues with antibiotics, sometimes showing up many months later. I would maje sure your water quality is optimum, even adding macro algae for filtration, macro is a great addition to maintain good water quality in a predator tank. How big is he, make sure what even dead foodyou tempt then with isn't too large, slices no bigger than the width if their mouths.

If you see those blisters getting inflamed then tgat's when I would seriously consider a broad spectrun antibiotic. The hospital tabk can have no porous material, a pvc pipe that's all. And a cycled sponge filter, your tank can evenbe s lsrge storage type container, covered.

Just a thought and question. I'm not a fan of cq, with the thick slime coating of the eel, could the cq somehow have made a gaseous trap beneath the slime coating. If so then it may just resolve itself.