gill flukes ?

[Keeper5221]

i noticed some of my fish acting abit off , different fish have been scratching against rocks and glass , twitching their heads and body and some have been yawning. I read up on these symptoms and found that it could be flukes, i dont see any markings on the fish no loss of coloration no white spots and they are all still eating healthy. So i went out and bought some praziquantel and treated the tank, about 4-5 hours after treating the tank i just noticed a fish coughing and now fish that wernt showing any signs are starting to yawn and flash against the rocks, can i take this behavior as a confirmation for flukes ? Are there any warning signs i should be looking for that would tell me the fish isnt taking to the treatment too well ? is this one of those things were the symptoms are going to get alittle worse before they get better ? I know that i should leave the tank for 48 hours then do a water change and repeat the dose again after a week , should i still expect scratching after the initial dose ? im guessing thats normal till the fish completely heals from any scratches the flukes would have left.

The tank has fish and snails but no coral atm , none of the snails seem off and are still moving around and eating stuff.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Water parameters are normal
0 ammonia
0 nitrate
0 nitrite
10 kh
8-8.2 ph
25-26 c temperature
1.025 water salinity

 

[sc50964]

Need to add aeration and shut uv off.

Is this your DT?

Struggling fish will gasp for air at the surface.

 

[threebuoys]

I second the recommendation for aeration and no uv.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

One thing that can happen - when you dose praziquantel, the flukes move around a bit before they drop off, and then, when they do drop off, they leave tiny holes in the fish's skin. That can actually make the visible symptoms WORSE for a time. In severe fluke infections, fish can actually die due to "bleeding out" when all the flukes drop off (doesn't sound that bad in this case though).

Jay

 

[Keeper5221]

hey thanks for all the advice, sorry for the late response. Its been over 24 hours and everything is still eating fine, not noticing any gasping for air at the surface. The fish already look alot better , there is still the occasional twitch and scratch but not even close to what i was seeing yesterday. I will do a water change tomorrow and repeat the dose again in 6 days but its looking like the praziquantel has done its job. I was alittle worried because i have a sixline wrasse in the tank but ive seen him eating with the rest of the fish so hopefully after the second treatment i dont see any scratching or twitching again.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Jay Hemdal


I bought 4 wrasses: Leopard wrasse, carpenter wrasse, exquisite wrasse, and aquamarinus wrasse.

The same night, I dosed prazipro at 2.5mg/L. Aeration was good as I pointed a powerhead to make heavy ripples.

By the next morning, the exquisite and carpenter wrasse died.

I’m thinking the 2 wrasses maybe bled out from the flukes? I was thinking of doing a freshwater dip a few days prior to the prazipro in the future.

I really don’t think prazipro was the issue. I think the twitching flukes was the issue. What do you think?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal


I bought 4 wrasses: Leopard wrasse, carpenter wrasse, exquisite wrasse, and aquamarinus wrasse.

The same night, I dosed prazipro at 2.5mg/L. Aeration was good as I pointed a powerhead to make heavy ripples.

By the next morning, the exquisite and carpenter wrasse died.

I’m thinking the 2 wrasses maybe bled out from the flukes? I was thinking of doing a freshwater dip a few days prior to the prazipro in the future.

I really don’t think prazipro was the issue. I think the twitching flukes was the issue. What do you think?

It could have been due to a heavy fluke infection. However, Prazipro needs a lot of aeration after use, more than regular praziquantel does. I prefer to have strong bubbles breaking the surface tension, not just rippling the surface.

I've tried using short FW dips to try and knock *some* of the flukes off first, then wait a few days for the fish to recover, and then hit them with prazi, to kill the remainder, but that is tricky to do.

Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

It could have been due to a heavy fluke infection. However, Prazipro needs a lot of aeration after use, more than regular praziquantel does. I prefer to have strong bubbles breaking the surface tension, not just rippling the surface.

I've tried using short FW dips to try and knock *some* of the flukes off first, then wait a few days for the fish to recover, and then hit them with prazi, to kill the remainder, but that is tricky to do.

Jay

I agree that it was likely from a heavy fluke infestation. I bought a sixline wrasse from my LFS, had it for a few days. It died a ton of giant neobenedenia flukes. It was laying, breathing heavily, and it had opaque patina patterns. A freshwater dip confirmed it, but it didn’t make it in the morning.

My LFS has a lot of flukes on their fish. I think people mistakenly say wrasses are sensitive to prazipro, when in reality they are just more likely to have fluke infestations.

I think flukes are silent fish killers. Symptoms aren’t as obvious as ich or velvet, but they are just as deadly. Flukes are more deadly than ich IME.

I have a HOB filter that breaks that water surface. I really don’t think aeration was the issue. There wasn’t any bacterial bloom.

 

[Keeper5221]

@Jay Hemdal

So i may have spoken too soon, today is the second day and im about to do a water change to get the prazi out of the water but i fed my fish this morning and noticed they were spitting the food back out. Is this just the prazi suppressing their appetite ? They are still very interested in the food they go for it but are spitting it back out after what looks like coughing. Is this something that normally happens with prazi ? this isnt happening to all the fish just the 2 that ive noticed right now. how long would this go on for before i actually need to be worried that something else is wrong ? ill keep an eye on them see how they go for the next couple days and keep this thread updated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

So i may have spoken too soon, today is the second day and im about to do a water change to get the prazi out of the water but i fed my fish this morning and noticed they were spitting the food back out. Is this just the prazi suppressing their appetite ? They are still very interested in the food they go for it but are spitting it back out after what looks like coughing. Is this something that normally happens with prazi ? this isnt happening to all the fish just the 2 that ive noticed right now. how long would this go on for before i actually need to be worried that something else is wrong ? ill keep an eye on them see how they go for the next couple days and keep this thread updated.

Taking food in and spitting it out is not a normal symptom of prazi itself. Sometimes, it is caused by the food being the wrong size or the fish being already full. I presume you are feeding them food of a size that there WERE eating before, so that is unlikely to be the issue.

How is the water testing? Especially the ammonia?

Jay

 

[Keeper5221]

I just did a test and all the parametres are normal and yes i am feeding the same foods as before. I think i saw the fish keep some food down today so im not too worried yet but he is definetly still spitting most of the food out. It is a bangai cardinal that im noticing it on the most, im going to get some garlic soaked food thats a smaller size and see if that does anything for him. But his drive to eat is still there he swims to the front and chases all the food but just ends up spitting it up.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I just did a test and all the parametres are normal and yes i am feeding the same foods as before. I think i saw the fish keep some food down today so im not too worried yet but he is definetly still spitting most of the food out. It is a bangai cardinal that im noticing it on the most, im going to get some garlic soaked food thats a smaller size and see if that does anything for him. But his drive to eat is still there he swims to the front and chases all the food but just ends up spitting it up.

Don’t use too much garlic, it can actually repel the fish if too strong.

Just double checking - the tank has good aeration, right?

Jay

 

[Keeper5221]

Don’t use too much garlic, it can actually repel the fish if too strong.

Just double checking - the tank has good aeration, right?

Jay

Yes i have a HOB filter running and it breaks the water surface , i dont notice any of the fish gasping/ breathing quickly or going to the surface for air this was before and after the prazi dose.

Ill try feeding again this afternoon and keep you updated

 

[Keeper5221]

okay so quick update, i went to my lfs and bought some brine shrimp as apposed to the mysis i have been feeding and the entire tank went crazy for it including the bangai cardinal, no problems with spitting or mouthing the food just straight devouring it. Could he have just decided he doesnt want mysis anymore ? ill start alternating the food daily and see if he starts eating mysis again but atleast he is eating something now, hopefully he doesnt just decide to stop liking brine.

On another note i asked the lfs owner about it and he said my ph was too low so the fish would have stopped eating because of it. The thing is though lowest ive seen my ph is 7.8 but he was adamant thats too low and i need to be at 8.4, is he just trying to get me to buy stuff to dose the tank or is 7.8 actually too low. Everything ive read says thats a fine ph for both fish and coral and to not chase number if things are stable. idk i kinda feel like the lfs owner just wants to sell me stuff cause he mentions a dosing pump everytime i see him.

 

[sc50964]

okay so quick update, i went to my lfs and bought some brine shrimp as apposed to the mysis i have been feeding and the entire tank went crazy for it including the bangai cardinal, no problems with spitting or mouthing the food just straight devouring it. Could he have just decided he doesnt want mysis anymore ? ill start alternating the food daily and see if he starts eating mysis again but atleast he is eating something now, hopefully he doesnt just decide to stop liking brine.

On another note i asked the lfs owner about it and he said my ph was too low so the fish would have stopped eating because of it. The thing is though lowest ive seen my ph is 7.8 but he was adamant thats too low and i need to be at 8.4, is he just trying to get me to buy stuff to dose the tank or is 7.8 actually too low. Everything ive read says thats a fine ph for both fish and coral and to not chase number if things are stable. idk i kinda feel like the lfs owner just wants to sell me stuff cause he mentions a dosing pump everytime i see him.

That ph thing by your LFS is BS. 7.8 for fish is fine.

 

[Keeper5221]

Quick update

Its been 6 days (7 if you count day of dosing) since first treatment and all the fish have started eating again like normal. Ive noticed one of the fish start to scratch again so ive gone ahead with the second dose of prazi and it seems like the fish are taking this second dose much better im guessing because they either arnt all infected this time or the number of flukes just isnt what it was and they were just starting to attach themselves to the fish again.

Either way will let the prazi sit in the tank for 48 hours and do a water change after that. Will probably do a 3rd dose if i see any fish scratch in a weeks time or just to be certain that all the flukes are gone.

Will keep this thread updated till the last dose just to have a record of how things went.

 

[GiannisK]

Quick update

Its been 6 days (7 if you count day of dosing) since first treatment and all the fish have started eating again like normal. Ive noticed one of the fish start to scratch again so ive gone ahead with the second dose of prazi and it seems like the fish are taking this second dose much better im guessing because they either arnt all infected this time or the number of flukes just isnt what it was and they were just starting to attach themselves to the fish again.

Either way will let the prazi sit in the tank for 48 hours and do a water change after that. Will probably do a 3rd dose if i see any fish scratch in a weeks time or just to be certain that all the flukes are gone.

Will keep this thread updated till the last dose just to have a record of how things went.

My fish is having a similar situation, how did yours turn out?

 

[Keeper5221]

My fish is having a similar situation, how did yours turn out?

The first dose hit the fish pretty hard i seen coughing, scratching and flicking heads, some of the fish stopped eating for a couple days. They all recovered thankfully but like i said i seen one of the fish scratch about 6-7 days later so i just did the second dose yesterday. They took this second dose much much better havnt seen any of what i seen the first time round and that fish that was scratching stopped immediately. I fed the fish this morning and they were all very eager to eat and did without the spitting issue i had the first go.

so far its turned out really well, only thing is i just realized that i overdosed the tank by twice the recommended 2.5mg/l dosage. I live in australia and the only way to get prazi was pills and the bottle said to use 1 pill per 20 litres so thats what i did both doses but i read the ingredients today and apparently each pill contains 100 mg of praziquantel so if my math is right i dosed closer to 5 mg/l which probably explains the trouble with eating the first time around. Thankfully prazi is a softer medication or i would have been in some serious trouble, it helps that all my fish are whats considered hardy clowns, bangai cardinal, foxface, longnose hawkfish and a sixline wrasse. I read wrasse can be sensitive to prazi but mine went through it like a champ Even with the overdose.