Gill Flukes Won't Go Away

[Lil Puff]

I have had gill flukes on and off for the past year and they just won't go away. I have dosed Fluke & Tape Worm Tablets by BluePLanet on four separate occasions which includes a first dose and a second dose 7 days after the first dose. The first time I dosed was last year in November when I posted about identifying the disease my grouper had which was gill flukes. The medication worked then about 1-2 months later it came back. Dosed again. This happened over and over and over again for the past year and it can never stay away. This is the 5th time it has come back and I am looking for any advice to help keep it away.

Stocking & Symptoms:
Banded Sand Catshark - Atelomycterus fasciatus
- Opening mouth wide and shaking head
- Flashing
- Less active
- Loss of appetite
Miniatus grouper - Cephalopholis miniata
- Opening Mouth wide
- Loss of colour (Turns White)
- Flashing
- Hanging Near overflow
Violatin Lionfish - Pterois volitans
- Opening Mouth Wide
3x Sargent Major Damselfish
- No symptoms
Corals

Parameters
Nitrates - 1
Phosphates - 0.10

 

[MnFish1]

How do you know?

 

[Lil Puff]

How do you know?

How do I know what?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How do I know what?

Have the gill flukes been confirmed through dip checks or biopsy?

To bad the shark is in there, hyposalinity would likely resolve this.

Egg laying gills flukes are tough to control with praziquantel, as the eggs are unaffected and hatch out later. I like spacing the prazi at 8 to 9 days, but it often takes 3 to 5 treatments to break the cycle.

Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

Have the gill flukes been confirmed through dip checks or biopsy?

To bad the shark is in there, hyposalinity would likely resolve this.

Egg laying gills flukes are tough to control with praziquantel, as the eggs are unaffected and hatch out later. I like spacing the prazi at 8 to 9 days, but it often takes 3 to 5 treatments to break the cycle.

Jay

Would you say prazipro is more effective than Fluke & Tape Worm Tablets by BluePlanet?

I haven't done more than 2 doses in a row so that may also be the problem.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Would you say prazipro is more effective than Fluke & Tape Worm Tablets by BluePlanet?

I haven't done more than 2 doses in a row so that may also be the problem.

Yes- praziquantel milder but increase oxygen with air stone as Prazi can reduce O2 and appetite slightly

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would you say prazipro is more effective than Fluke & Tape Worm Tablets by BluePlanet?

I haven't done more than 2 doses in a row so that may also be the problem.

I’ve not used the blue planet product, but you just need to reach a dose of prazi at around 2.5 ppm. I’ve gone as high as 4 ppm, but it doesn’t seem to work any better at high doses.
Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

I’ve not used the blue planet product, but you just need to reach a dose of prazi at around 2.5 ppm. I’ve gone as high as 4 ppm, but it doesn’t seem to work any better at high doses.
Jay

I'll have to order some prazipro. Can I use Blueplanet while I wait for the prazipro to arrive then switch to that? Fastest delivery time is 18 days because I'm in Australia and we don't sell prazipro. Would the fish be okay waiting 18 days or should I dose some blueplanet?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'll have to order some prazipro. Can I use Blueplanet while I wait for the prazipro to arrive then switch to that? Fastest delivery time is 18 days because I'm in Australia and we don't sell prazipro. Would the fish be okay waiting 18 days or should I dose some blueplanet?

I looked the blue planet product up, it is fine to use. Their dose works out to be 2 ppm. I would just redose after 9 days, not the 7 they suggest.
Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

I looked the blue planet product up, it is fine to use. Their dose works out to be 2 ppm. I would just redose after 9 days, not the 7 they suggest.
Jay

Thanks for the help!

 

[Lil Puff]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 update: 3 days ago I added the fluke treatment, added an aerator and took the cap off the skimmer then let it run to put oxygen in the water. The Groupers condition has worsened since I added the medication and isn't improving but all the other fish are fine. The Grouper never got this stressed and sympotms of flukes stopped after a day last time we added the medication. All the fish including the grouper ate this morning I must add. Do any of you guys know why he isn't getting better?
Thanks, Seth

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 update: 3 days ago I added the fluke treatment, added an aerator and took the cap off the skimmer then let it run to put oxygen in the water. The Groupers condition has worsened since I added the medication and isn't improving but all the other fish are fine. The Grouper never got this stressed and sympotms of flukes stopped after a day last time we added the medication. All the fish including the grouper ate this morning I must add. Do any of you guys know why he isn't getting better?
Thanks, Seth

Well, my first question in this thread was to try and confirm if this was flukes or not. Seems like it may be something else. Properly done praziquantel treatments may not permanently cure flukes, and may actually make the fish look sicker for the first day or so, but at 3 days, the fish should look better.

Can you post a short video of the grouper?

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 update: 3 days ago I added the fluke treatment, added an aerator and took the cap off the skimmer then let it run to put oxygen in the water. The Groupers condition has worsened since I added the medication and isn't improving but all the other fish are fine. The Grouper never got this stressed and sympotms of flukes stopped after a day last time we added the medication. All the fish including the grouper ate this morning I must add. Do any of you guys know why he isn't getting better?
Thanks, Seth

Not a typical grouper and hate to see this. Im not familiar with the Bue Planet product you are using but many meds take 2-3 days to start working and I am curious as to what impact this product has on oxygen levels as prazi will lower oxygen a little.
The other would be ammonia levels. Although the other fish look happy, what is your ammonia level and what kit are you using to monitor ammonia?

 

[Lil Puff]

The grouper is fine now thanks for the help guys!

 

[Lil Puff]

Update:
Parameters
Nitrates - 1
Phosphates - 0.10
Ammonia - 0
PH - 8

4 weeks have passed and I have done a treatment each week. The fish are still sick. Is a freshwater dip the only way to confirm what's wrong with the fish? Doing one seems very stressful and is the last thing I want to do but it seems like this is what it has come down to. What's the whole process of the freshwater dip? If anything falls off the fish how do I identify it? What happens if nothing falls off the fish?

Thanks, Seth
@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[Hot2na]

Fenbendazole ... works well

 

[Lil Puff]

Fenbendazole ... works well

Thanks for the reply. Do you know if it’s safe for sharks?

 

[Hot2na]

no clue

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update:
Parameters
Nitrates - 1
Phosphates - 0.10
Ammonia - 0
PH - 8

4 weeks have passed and I have done a treatment each week. The fish are still sick. Is a freshwater dip the only way to confirm what's wrong with the fish? Doing one seems very stressful and is the last thing I want to do but it seems like this is what it has come down to. What's the whole process of the freshwater dip? If anything falls off the fish how do I identify it? What happens if nothing falls off the fish?

Thanks, Seth
@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Did you ever see any improvement after dosing prazi? I'm still wondering what this actually is, since the flukes haven't been diagnosed directly. If you dose with prazi and the fish get better for a week or so and then get worse, that helps indicate that it is flukes. Another idea would be to give one fish (the grouper?) a FW dip and see if that helps with the symptoms, at least temporarily. Again, that would help diagnose gill parasites. You may not see anything fall off the fish unless you use a microscope. There are a lot of tricks to doing a FW dip safely, I'll post them at the end of this message.

Praziquantel has an issue where it becomes less effective each time you use it. A species of bacteria grows in the tank that eats prazi as a food source. Each time you dose, the bacteria grows more and gets better at eating it. After three treatments, it is consuming the prazi almost as fast as you are adding it. There is no good work-around for this, but some people dose it at 4 ppm at that point.

Going back to the original symptoms - is it just rapid breathing and flashing? A video would help me see how fast the breathing actually is.

Fenbendazole has a nasty toxicity issue when used in the water, but only against some fish species...trouble is, there is not a comprehensive list of what fish.

FW dips:

“Freshwater dips” are commonly used to dislodge parasites from the skin of marine fishes. To perform these dips, the fish is captured and placed in a dimly lit container of clean freshwater the same temperature as the aquarium system it came from. Do not use reverse osmosis or deionized water, as there is no buffer capacity and the pH can drop too low. Dechlorinated tap water is suitable unless it is very acidic. The dip container should be covered with a clear material so that the fish is kept from jumping out, yet can still be observed for overt signs of stress. Hold the fish in the freshwater for five minutes to seven minutes. If acute stress is seen, the dip may need to be terminated early. The idea is to dislodge the parasites, without unduly harming the fish. Many aquarists opt to use reverse osmosis water, and adjust the pH to match the aquarium, but this is simply not necessary if the pH of the freshwater is between 7.5 and 8.5. Some advocate to not aerate the water during the dip, but this is incorrect. The water motion from air bubbles can help keep the fish active so that they can be better assessed for stress. Additionally, the air bubbles help dislodge some parasites during the dip process.
Some caveats:
1) Some fish will give extreme reactions to being dipped (hepatus tangs for example), as long as they were swimming well before the dip, it is best to ignore that behavior and continue for a full five minutes.
2) Moribund fish can be dipped, but understand that the acute stress from the dip may prove fatal. The dip water should still be checked for parasites in order to possibly help any remaining fish. Moribund would include any fish that was easy to capture or a fish with a respiration rate of 200+ BPM.
3) Choose the type of net wisely, some fish have spines that will become caught in the netting. Have a pair of scissors handy to cut the net if this happens.
4) Dropping a fish while moving it to and from the dip is common, take care. Some fish have venomous spines, so know that before trying to handle any fish.
5) Fish shaking their heads violently after capture is one cause of mechanical exophthalmos (popeye), so try to gently restrain them in the net while moving them.

Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

The grouper isn’t breathing rapidly anymore but here is a video.