FW PH question

[SRT80]

I figured I'd ask here just to see what some thoughts are.

I'm in the process of setting up a 72 gal. bowfront. Sunday evening I got the water and sand in the tank. I'm using quikrete pool filter sand. I have read on a lot of FW forums that pool filter sand is the best sand to use for FW tanks.

I went today and picked up a FW test kit just to see what everything looked like. Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrates are all 0. I tested the PH and it looked to be around 8.2 I tested with the regular PH kit and it looked too blue so more than 7.6. I then tested with the high range PH and it looked to be either 8.0 or 8.2

I then tested the water straight from the tap with the regular PH kit and it looked like it might be around 7.2 It was still a teal color and not blue for 7.6. I decided to also test the tap with the high range and it looked like 7.4

So why would the PH be so high in the newly setup tank? Could it be the pool filter sand? I was reading PFS didn't affect PH?

The original plan was a african cichlid setup. I then decided I was just gonna do a few fancy goldfish. But now with the high PH, I'm a little concerned and now at a stand still.

Thoughts?
Steve

 

[SRT80]

Only thing in the tank is the PFS, a few plastic plants, and a 12" air stone in the center. Filtration is 2 Penguin 350 HOB.

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

Pool filter sand is neutral. But you said Quikrete pool filter sand? I'm not familiar with the brand. Is that normal sand? Very light tan, sand crystals? Nothing added to the water either? No salt, magnesium, etc? Is it a new filter, new tank, etc? Eliminating anything left over is a step.
Our tap water in the Nashville area is indeed 7.2. How large of an airstone is in the tank? What size pump?
The water will read 0 as it's not cycled. There's been no life in it. That's not a problem with goldfish, but you'd want to cycle it first or add some seeded materials from a cycled tank before adding anything more delicate. Just like with salt, the minute ammonia hits the water the cycle begins. HTH

 

[TinaFoster]

Sorry see you said 12" airstone. Oops! Sorry for the oversight.

 

[TinaFoster]

The reason I asked about the size of the airstone and the pump is because aeration raises Ph slightly. Not an entire point I'd think! But it will maybe account for half of it. This should drop again though as the CO2 is released from the water. Test again in a while and see if there's a change?
If the sand is silica based and not calcium based, you're good. It'll be off-gassing. Unless there's anything else you've added to condition the water but I don't imagine there would be.

 

[SRT80]

Yea, the sand is a white/tan color and does kind of like crystal pieces as you said. I was readin' on some other FW forums where people have used the Quikrete PFS.

No chemicals added to the water other than Tetra Aqua Safe dechlorinator.

Everything is all new. Brand new filters, biowheels, media. Brand new heater, brand new plants (fake). The air stone is 12". I'm usin' a Fusion 500 air pump. It might actually be too small as it's only rated up to 60 gal. My tank actually has about 65 gal. of water.

I was thinkin' about doin' the Dr. Tim fishless cycle method. But it looks like the Tetra Safe Start is pretty much the same bacteria he sales....or so I have been reading. Then I would just have to locate some ammonia.

Then I thought about maybe 3-4 fancy goldfish cause my nephew really likes them. I figured pick up a bottle of safestart to see if it would help with the cycle and get maybe 3 goldfish and cycle the tank. But the PH would be too high for goldfish right?

Plus I figured with goldfish I would be doin' large water changes probably twice a week. Wouldn't that have a effect on the tank when the fish are in a PH around 8.0-8.2 and replacing with fresh water thats around 7.4?

Appreciate the help,
Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

Goldfish are ubertough. High Ph won't kill them if they're acclimated BUT
if this is gas release, the Ph is going to drop back down drastically, and that could. I'd wait to put the fish in til the Ph settles. For sure. Freshwater is a lot faster setup than salt, but still the same basic things apply.
Also, if you do go with goldfish you don't have to ammonia cycle or add bacteria. They really are tough.
I'm confident at this point it's just the CO2 releasing. I think you'll be fine in a couple of days max.

 

[SRT80]

I was off on my date. The tank was actually filled and setup Monday evening. I actually set the air pump and air stone up last night around 9:00. I never tested the water to see what the PH was before.

I might unhook the pump and test again in the morning to see if the PH goes back down.

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

If you still want to ammonia cycle for goldfish, you can't do that with them in there, of course. It's all done ahead. Get some Parson's ammonia--just plain ol cleaning stuff--and that'll work. I have never done it though. I cycled with tough fish to start (goldfish are, but I used guppies, mollies, platys) and after that first cycle, used some of the material to seed the next tank, etc. etc. until there were 35 tanks all running here.

 

[SRT80]

I'm confident at this point it's just the CO2 releasing. I think you'll be fine in a couple of days max.

If this is the case, I will leave the air pump runnin' and just check again in a couple days to see if there is a change. I'm in no rush really.

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

That's what I'd do. You need to get that gas exchange over with, right?

 

[SRT80]

Hey Tina, question about my air pump. It's one that has the 2 outputs or whatever to run 2 air lines. If I'm only using 1 of those, should I try and plug the other one some way?

I don't know if you know about these or not. This is the first pump I ever had like this.

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

Yes you can get a piece of tubing and a valve to shut it off and put the valve on the tube. Then all the air flow comes out the one you're using.

 

[SRT80]

Well, just found something out on another forum and was told my tap water could contain high levels of CO2 and it dissipates once released from the pressure of the pipes.

I'm doin a bucket test, I put some water in a bucket with a air stone and will test it tomorrow. But I just tested the water in my 29 gal. tank and the PH is the exact same color as my new setup. I did the regular PH test on both. Both tubes side by side was a darker blue than the 7.6 on the chart. So Im sure if I did the high range test, both would be 8.0-8.2

This 29 gal. has been setup since 2004. I used to always test but started neglecting the tank. The last couple of years, it just housed danios. For the last 6 months or so, it just had a single pleco. I took the pleco to AC monday. But the 29 is still runnin'. No air stones in it, just a HOB filter.

Have you ever heard of anything like this? Water straight from the tap bein' around 7.4 but once its out, the ph rises?

There's a few Smyrna people here. Have any of you ever tested your tap for PH? I'm sure everyone probably uses a R/O filter though.

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

The CO2 dissipating is what I was figuring the airstone was doing. But airstone or not if the other tank has been set up for years and still has the same reading, and you haven't done a water change recently, there has to be more to it. Ph, reasonably, can't change itself with no catalyst, so I'm just not sure. What's the substrate in the 29?

 

[SRT80]

The 29 gal. is just setup with regular aquarium gravel. It also has a piece of real driftwood that has been in the tank since 2004.

So I'm lost. I checked the bucket this morning and it looks to be the same as my new tank. I again tested the water straight from the tap and it's lower.

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

Driftwood lowers Ph so it wouldn't be that. No rocks at all in there?

 

[SRT80]

In the 72 bow, there is just pool filter sand, 4 artificial plants, and a 12" air stone. 2 Penguin 350 HOB filters.

The 29 gal has a piece of driftwood, black aquarium gravel, a artificial piece of lace rock, I think resin? And a artifical hollow log ornament. The plants are all fake as well. A penguin 170 HOB filter on it.

I tested the water in the bucket again and it looks like it might be slightly lower than my 2 tanks, but still higher than when it comes straight from the tap. This water was not treated with the AquaSafe dechlorinator. So, I went ahead and filled the bucket again with 5 gal and treated with 5 ml of AquaSafe. I don't think the AquaSafe should effect the PH should it? But I will test as soon as I get home from work and see.

If it is indeed the AquaSafe, I will just plan on doin' a full water change on the 72 and replace with new water and new dechlorinator.

Steve

 

[SRT80]

I just checked the bucket and the PH is already rising. The water tested a teal color (looks like 7.2-7.4) straight from tap and the water that has been in the bucket with air stone for maybe 20 min. is already lookin' like 7.6

Steve

 

[TinaFoster]

You may want a list of minerals in the water from your water company. Various minerals out-gas too, and that could possibly take longer since the minerals don't leave the water unless we take them out. Just guessing at this point. This is a strange situation to me, when there's nothing that could be raising it in the 29 that's been set up for so long. It kind of tosses my CO2 gas release in the bin.
I contacted my water company for a list of minerals and levels when I was deciding whether to use sodium thiosulfate to dechlor the water. They gave it without any fuss. It's worth asking! They sometimes add extra things to the water to keep algae down too starting in August and I have no idea what, besides extra chlorine. One never knows!