Frogfish bloated

[HankstankXXL750]

So I e had this wartskin frogfish for well over a year. Weaned him from live to frozen. I feed him krill from tongs and was feeding 2-3 times a week. He has really grown so I started feeding more often. He wouldn’t eat the last couple of days, generally I pull his tank lid off and feed if he starts throwing his lure. Today he appears swollen or bloated.
Possible that he didn’t digest the last krill he was fed and that is the problem.
Does anyone know a safe way to try to burp him, or do I just have to wait and see?

He appears to have a small stringy discharge from his butt, but I really doubt it is any kind of parasite based on how long I’ve had him, and he lives alone.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I e had this wartskin frogfish for well over a year. Weaned him from live to frozen. I feed him krill from tongs and was feeding 2-3 times a week. He has really grown so I started feeding more often. He wouldn’t eat the last couple of days, generally I pull his tank lid off and feed if he starts throwing his lure. Today he appears swollen or bloated.
Possible that he didn’t digest the last krill he was fed and that is the problem.
Does anyone know a safe way to try to burp him, or do I just have to wait and see?

He appears to have a small stringy discharge from his butt, but I really doubt it is any kind of parasite based on how long I’ve had him, and he lives alone.

May be constipation or internal issues associated with digesting a certain food. Often feeding brine shrimp can act as a laxative. this condition as described by jay may also be what is referred to as edema where the fish has a hard time maintaining its bodily fluids with the current tank water related to kidney or liver failure.
If you see rapid breathing , it may involve the fish's entire body. Hopefully prolapse is not developing.

 

[lion king]

Burping is achieved by gently handling him, massaging the belly while slowly inverting and back a couple/few times.

How often have you been feeding, feeding too often causes the gas to build up and cause bloat. I know you don't want to hear this, a diet of krill will cause a vitamin B1 deficiency and if not reversed will cause premature death. Most frogfish will rarely get the proper nutrients on a dead only diet,

Raising your mg to 1600ppm may help with digestion and subside the bloat. I wouldn't feed again until his stomach goes down and he gets into hunting mode becoming more active, I would try and include other foods like a fatty fish and San Francisco Bay brand silversides that contain guts and bones. I know you won't like it, but I recommend including live foods like mollies and some ghosties, but primarily a live fish.

EDIT: I see 2-3 times a week, after a year maybe too often. They will do best to gorge on feeding days and after a year maybe about every 5 days. Looks like an antennarius species, unless I see the tail I can't tell specifics, a painted would have 3 eyespots on the tail. How big is he.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

May be constipation or internal issues associated with digesting a certain food. Often feeding brine shrimp can act as a laxative. this condition as described by jay may also be what is referred to as edema where the fish has a hard time maintaining its bodily fluids with the current tank water related to kidney or liver failure.
If you see rapid breathing , it may involve the fish's entire body. Hopefully prolapse is not developing.

Doesn’t seem to be labored breathing. Looked fine yesterday. When I set up to feed today, he looked funny, thought he might be dead. Then I nudge him with the rings and he seems to be kinda ok. Read everything I could find, plus have always know that they would eat themselves to death, and I might have lost focus and fed him too many days in a row. Try to focus on smaller krill.
Does the brine need to be alive? I have some I’m trying to grow out, but they are only about 2-3 days old.
Saw many things on constipation or blockage leading to gasses and burping mentioned, but no one really laid out how, and not sure they sounded knowledgeable.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Doesn’t seem to be labored breathing. Looked fine yesterday. When I set up to feed today, he looked funny, thought he might be dead. Then I nudge him with the rings and he seems to be kinda ok. Read everything I could find, plus have always know that they would eat themselves to death, and I might have lost focus and fed him too many days in a row. Try to focus on smaller krill.
Does the brine need to be alive? I have some I’m trying to grow out, but they are only about 2-3 days old.
Saw many things on constipation or blockage leading to gasses and burping mentioned, but no one really laid out how, and not sure they sounded knowledgeable.

frozen brine much acceptable and sounds like constipation

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Burping is achieved by gently handling him, massaging the belly while slowly inverting and back a couple/few times.

How often have you been feeding, feeding too often causes the gas to build up and cause bloat. I know you don't want to hear this, a diet of krill will cause a vitamin B1 deficiency and if not reversed will cause premature death. Most frogfish will rarely get the proper nutrients on a dead only diet,

Raising your mg to 1600ppm may help with digestion and subside the bloat. I wouldn't feed again until his stomach goes down and he gets into hunting mode becoming more active, I would try and include other foods like a fatty fish and San Francisco Bay brand silversides that contain guts and bones. I know you won't like it, but I recommend including live foods like mollies and some ghosties, but primarily a live fish.

EDIT: I see 2-3 times a week, after a year maybe too often. They will do best to gorge on feeding days and after a year maybe about every 5 days. Looks like an antennarius species, unless I see the tail I can't tell specifics, a painted would have 3 eyespots on the tail. How big is he.

He is 3 1/4- 3 1/2” from snout to tail. The majority of his life he has eaten saltwater grass shrimp from rusalty. Probably ought to order more, but I have everyone weaned off of live.
No reasonable place to buy live, only lfs is Petsmart and I can’t keep their mollies alive long enough in salt to be enticing regardless of wether i temp and dumped or acclimated with aeration, and dripped for hours.
I was feeding once a week, but thought he was looking starved, so stepped it up some. My understanding was they could die from eating in one of two ways. Bite off more than they can chew (actually had this guy try that, but I got the larger fish out of him). Or eating so much at once that it didn’t digest and caused gas.
And yes I probably should vary his diet. Because he only takes it from the tongs, I don’t drop in an assortment. Also little gun shy as I’ve had fish that were eating, gave them something different and then they quit eating. But I have an assortment of silversides, clams, mussels. So I’ll give him something else when he’s ready.
Which is the greater risk, massaging or waiting?

 

[HankstankXXL750]

frozen brine much acceptable and sounds like constipation

Don’t know if you saw my other issue. Don’t know why they all come together, but my fry tank spiked ammonia today. Laid out the particulars in my Clownfish thread. Did nothing different today from every other day, changed out some water yesterday and scrubbed the front glass so I could see a little better. Have changed out a lot of water today total about 6 gallons in roughly 15 gallon tank. Babies still doing ok, I dosed prime and stability and fed more rotifers and tinted after water change. Ammonia was pushing 2. Definitely hitting 1.2 on Red Sea test

 

[lion king]

He is 3 1/4- 3 1/2” from snout to tail. The majority of his life he has eaten saltwater grass shrimp from rusalty. Probably ought to order more, but I have everyone weaned off of live.
No reasonable place to buy live, only lfs is Petsmart and I can’t keep their mollies alive long enough in salt to be enticing regardless of wether i temp and dumped or acclimated with aeration, and dripped for hours.
I was feeding once a week, but thought he was looking starved, so stepped it up some. My understanding was they could die from eating in one of two ways. Bite off more than they can chew (actually had this guy try that, but I got the larger fish out of him). Or eating so much at once that it didn’t digest and caused gas.
And yes I probably should vary his diet. Because he only takes it from the tongs, I don’t drop in an assortment. Also little gun shy as I’ve had fish that were eating, gave them something different and then they quit eating. But I have an assortment of silversides, clams, mussels. So I’ll give him something else when he’s ready.
Which is the greater risk, massaging or waiting?

Sounds like it just started, so waiting would be fine. If you decide to try and burp him, as long as you are slow and gentle he will be no worse for wear. Try the boost in mg, I actually found that to be an effective treatment from this same situation, a bloated frogfish. Yes feeding too large will kill. When feeding smaller items, taking it slow, many times they actually will refuse when they get full. When feeding too large of items or feeding too fast, they will overeat before they realize it. A little bulge in their belly on feeding day is desirable. Finding the right schedule of feeding is fine tuning that's an individual thing. Try 3-5 days a week after he gets back to normal. It doesn't sound like too much damage has been done, maybe just fed too many days in a row. I would start with trying the other foods you have, and if you eat salmon, cut him off a slice and see if he'll take it.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Sounds like it just started, so waiting would be fine. If you decide to try and burp him, as long as you are slow and gentle he will be no worse for wear. Try the boost in mg, I actually found that to be an effective treatment from this same situation, a bloated frogfish. Yes feeding too large will kill. When feeding smaller items, taking it slow, many times they actually will refuse when they get full. When feeding too large of items or feeding too fast, they will overeat before they realize it. A little bulge in their belly on feeding day is desirable. Finding the right schedule of feeding is fine tuning that's an individual thing. Try 3-5 days a week after he gets back to normal. It doesn't sound like too much damage has been done, maybe just fed too many days in a row. I would start with trying the other foods you have, and if you eat salmon, cut him off a slice and see if he'll take it.

Just bought some salmon filets and tuna steaks as I’m going to try making some of my own food this week. So I’ll set some aside to try. Here is the side picture. He has moved around a little so I might wait for morning to bother him. I always forget to add the pics before I hit post.

 

[lion king]

He doesn't look swollen and bloated to me. I would just try and give him a few days. If he's moving around and fishing you, I'm sure he'll be fine. Salmon and tuna both are good foods, an important key to a good dead diet is fatty fish, salmon and tuna are the best to offer.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Don’t know if you saw my other issue. Don’t know why they all come together, but my fry tank spiked ammonia today. Laid out the particulars in my Clownfish thread. Did nothing different today from every other day, changed out some water yesterday and scrubbed the front glass so I could see a little better. Have changed out a lot of water today total about 6 gallons in roughly 15 gallon tank. Babies still doing ok, I dosed prime and stability and fed more rotifers and tinted after water change. Ammonia was pushing 2. Definitely hitting 1.2 on Red Sea test

Allow it to settle- wster charge should have helped. Prime can be omitted as it’s a binder and not remover. If you tested water right after water change, you’ll get a high reading- tomorrow will be more accurate

 

[HankstankXXL750]

He doesn't look swollen and bloated to me. I would just try and give him a few days. If he's moving around and fishing you, I'm sure he'll be fine. Salmon and tuna both are good foods, an important key to a good dead diet is fatty fish, salmon and tuna are the best to offer.

He looks better now than earlier. But from the front he looks slightly engorged.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Allow it to settle- wster charge should have helped. Prime can be omitted as it’s a binder and not remover. If you tested water right after water change, you’ll get a high reading- tomorrow will be more accurate

New batch is hatching. Turned on the light for the vossen but not sure it’s working

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just bought some salmon filets and tuna steaks as I’m going to try making some of my own food this week. So I’ll set some aside to try. Here is the side picture. He has moved around a little so I might wait for morning to bother him. I always forget to add the pics before I hit post.

In this second pic, it doesn't look bloated to me either.

I wonder if this is all related to changing it over from live food to krill? I'm not a big fan of large krill. It is partially cooked (blanched) and prone to oxidation due to poor storage.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

In this second pic, it doesn't look bloated to me either.

I wonder if this is all related to changing it over from live food to krill? I'm not a big fan of large krill. It is partially cooked (blanched) and prone to oxidation due to poor storage.

Jay

Thanks Jay,

guess I should switch. I always thought it was good, but never thought about that as they are orange so must be “cooked” somehow. He has been off live for months, it is not recent. I bought some smelt yesterday to use in making some homemade food. They are gutted and headless, are they a decent food source?

Thought I might be able to substitute them for the silversides I have been feeding to the predators. In my blend I plan to use shrimp, scallops, squid, tuna, salmon and these smelt.
Thanks

 

[lion king]

Checkout an Asian market in your area, you may find human grade krill. My Asian market has it from time to time. Since you are in there check for human grade silversides. You can also find fresh smelt, limit smelt as it also does contain a good amount of thiaminese. Human grade food will be uncooked, no chemical additives or carcinogens like ethoxyquin. You mentioned mussels earlier, they are also a good food to offer, high in vitamin B1. Rotate your offering to see what they might accept, they may refuse today but take it down the line at some time, so offer it again later on.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Checkout an Asian market in your area, you may find human grade krill. My Asian market has it from time to time. Since you are in there check for human grade silversides. You can also find fresh smelt, limit smelt as it also does contain a good amount of thiaminese. Human grade food will be uncooked, no chemical additives or carcinogens like ethoxyquin. You mentioned mussels earlier, they are also a good food to offer, high in vitamin B1. Rotate your offering to see what they might accept, they may refuse today but take it down the line at some time, so offer it again later on.

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately he passed in the night. I probably should have tried to burp him, but maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference. He appeared less bloated from the time I took the first picture and posted this so I hoped for the best. Finished my clownfish hatch and went to sleep. He was dead when I got up.

 

[lion king]

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately he passed in the night. I probably should have tried to burp him, but maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference. He appeared less bloated from the time I took the first picture and posted this so I hoped for the best. Finished my clownfish hatch and went to sleep. He was dead when I got up.

Sorry to hear that, frogfish are complicated, if you ever decided to try another one, I did do a writ up about them, although what I have to say is still a guessing game.

So you want a frog fish; I call them anglers

I've kept a few, my first going back 25 years. These are very difficult fish to keep and I am still very frustrated as to the success in keeping these guys long term. I do have some information I would like to share for those interested. Be forewarned, they are not for everyone and do take...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Thanks. I think they are awesome and from what I understood the hardest part was to get eating prepped food vs live.

might try another one at a later point. Really sad as he might have been one of my favorites. With over 100 fish hard to have a favorite, but the way he moved with his “arms” and his face, almost looks like a person trying to escape from inside. I would have to go back to find out how long I’ve had him but over a year. Struggled with him some, and wasn’t feeding enough for a little while, thought he was getting thin, then one day I noticed he was “big”. Amazing that you don’t realize it as they grow when you see them daily. Just like my kids. He was active and I found him at different places, but he was solitary in a 10 gallon. I would have to set up a 20 gallon mini reef strictly for him if I do this again. Actually thinking that if I was to do that kind of tank I might prefer to do seahorses and pipefish.
Great write up by the way.
Thanks
Kent