FritzZyme TurboStart 900 vs, Dr. Tim's One and Only...
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Bio-Spira for me. I'd go with Fritz over Dr. Tim's though. Dr. Tim's seems needlessly complicated in comparison to the others. It also takes longer ie. 10 days.
They are all practically the same in terms of function. Just dump a whole bottle in. Go with a size rated for a tank larger than yours. I'd go with bio spira if you are somewhere really cold or hot since dr tims and I think fritz turbo have issues with temperature extremes. All they do is make new tanks safe for fish
challenge:
anyone deciding among brands try and find any single example of alternate brand failing to carry fish just fine on day one completely symptom-free of any ammonia burning, and post the link
if we can rule out acclimation errors and disease then we've found a bottle bac unable to reasonably cycle fast, because day one of setup is fast in all cases/a real test of bottle bac.
they're all equal options if nobody can find some floating dead clownfish
and only the marketing differs for the products
anyone deciding among brands try and find any single example of alternate brand failing to carry fish just fine on day one completely symptom-free of any ammonia burning, and post the link
if we can rule out acclimation errors and disease then we've found a bottle bac unable to reasonably cycle fast, because day one of setup is fast in all cases/a real test of bottle bac.
they're all equal options if nobody can find some floating dead clownfish
and only the marketing differs for the products
there are hundreds of people who disagree and this makes for the fun threads
its fun that cycling science is in the wild west era
all I'm doing is placing hedges against what I think everyone's seneye machine will read in 2028 when we're all digital. seeking accountability for the statements and by then we'll know what cycles have been doing all along
we get snippets now though. there must be 1000 seneye logs uploaded to the web now
whats amazing though is currently searchable data using other people's web posts: try and find one example of a fish-in cycle not working. something so dangerous and burning has no viewable fails in over a million posts? hey dang that's good odds for ammonia being controlled/I push in all chips and await the confirmation or denial another 5 painful years
I put em all equal
one of the brands adheres to surfaces faster, where you're immune to full water changes faster than the other brands (the sole point of Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread was finding fastest adherent)
a normal cycling reef doesn't need to run this trick, all those brands will carry fish on day one if they're active/alive vs dead bottles. so they're equal, but not equal in cost
its fun that cycling science is in the wild west era
all I'm doing is placing hedges against what I think everyone's seneye machine will read in 2028 when we're all digital. seeking accountability for the statements and by then we'll know what cycles have been doing all along
we get snippets now though. there must be 1000 seneye logs uploaded to the web now
whats amazing though is currently searchable data using other people's web posts: try and find one example of a fish-in cycle not working. something so dangerous and burning has no viewable fails in over a million posts? hey dang that's good odds for ammonia being controlled/I push in all chips and await the confirmation or denial another 5 painful years
I put em all equal
one of the brands adheres to surfaces faster, where you're immune to full water changes faster than the other brands (the sole point of Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread was finding fastest adherent)
a normal cycling reef doesn't need to run this trick, all those brands will carry fish on day one if they're active/alive vs dead bottles. so they're equal, but not equal in cost
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Fritz, Biospira, and One and Only are all classical nitrifiers that work as expected. Fritz is faster, followed by Biospira, followed by One and Only - but maybe the speed should be interpreted with a couple of caveats.
What is the point of a product that puts in much more than the normal sustainable level of bacteria in the system if the system ammonia-eater population will drop down over time anyway.
second caveat, some people might tell you that the "slower" products contain strains of bacteria that are better suited to the super tiny amounts of ammonia in real systems, rather than high ammonia eaters like might be found in water treatment contexts. I have no idea if that suggestion has any basis in reality.
What is the point of a product that puts in much more than the normal sustainable level of bacteria in the system if the system ammonia-eater population will drop down over time anyway.
second caveat, some people might tell you that the "slower" products contain strains of bacteria that are better suited to the super tiny amounts of ammonia in real systems, rather than high ammonia eaters like might be found in water treatment contexts. I have no idea if that suggestion has any basis in reality.
Taricha I think it's solid
changing of clades occurs we can see in aquabiomics studies
the dominant clades in 2 years after setup aren't the initial bottle bac ones, they got selected against over time but not to any detriment of initial ammonia control or ongoing ammonia control.
that initial bioload carry is all anyone wants... how can I keep two clowns alive and that initial community provides it. I think this represents the most updated view on cycling science we can get for the current day. start with one group, wind up with another as you stock the tank with more fitting/selected strains for reef environs
changing of clades occurs we can see in aquabiomics studies
the dominant clades in 2 years after setup aren't the initial bottle bac ones, they got selected against over time but not to any detriment of initial ammonia control or ongoing ammonia control.
that initial bioload carry is all anyone wants... how can I keep two clowns alive and that initial community provides it. I think this represents the most updated view on cycling science we can get for the current day. start with one group, wind up with another as you stock the tank with more fitting/selected strains for reef environs
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I'm going to chime in only because I am cycling a tank right now that is 75g total. I have always used the tank being able to process ammonia from 2ppm to 0 in 24 hours as being cycled. I have never used bottled bac. I've always been a add ammonia, shrimp whatever and wait it out kind of guy. I'm using salifert ammonia test kit and started with a 4oz bottle of fritz 900. SG is 1.025 if it matters. Added the fritz on 2-24 and dosed ammonia to 1.5ppm. On 2-25 ammonia is 0.5. I dosed it back up to 1.5. On 2-26 ammonia is 0.5 Nitrates through the roof at 75+, 75 is as high as the Hanna can read and Phos 0.25. I'm like sweet this stuff really works. I'm pumped now because this usually takes me a couple of months or so the way I used to do it. I add a tupperware container in the fuge chamber and bring up some crud from my sump fuge. The stuff I brought up is basically sand and crap full of pods and bristle worms Home made miracal mud kind of stuff. I also added some marine pure block from another sump and rock rubble and put it all in the container on top of the crud containing all the nasty bristle worms. I also added a good sized ball of chaeto. The rubble, crud and blocks have been in my sumps for around 5 years. I figure that and the chaeto may help with the nitrates. Just because I like to be cautious before adding live stock I decide to raise ammonia again. I bring it back up to 1.5. I'm using 1.5 vs 2.0 because my test kit maxes out at 2.0 and I want to make sure I'm not over dosing. On 2-27 ammonia is 1.5 and did not drop over 24hrs. On 2-28 ammonia was 0. I'm experimenting right, so I bring ammonia back up to 1.5 on the same day 2-28. On 3-1 I test and ammonia is 1.5. Hmmm maybe I over did the ammonia? But the system has to be able to process it to be safe for fish no? I added 15ml of micro bactor 7 to try and help out the good bac. Today 3-2 ammonia is still 1.5. I hate to use the term "stalled cycle" but @brandon429 or anyone maybe explain why the ammonia is not being processed now?
EDIT: I forgot to mention I did a couple of water changes thinking it may help reduce nitrates. I used water from another fairly mature system with nitrates around 5 as the replacement water. 2-27 I did an 8g water change . 2-28 13 gallons. 3-1 4 gallons. I save my old water for emergencies and I also do daily water changes on my other tanks, that's the reason I have the water to use. No sense dumping it down the drain right?
EDIT: I forgot to mention I did a couple of water changes thinking it may help reduce nitrates. I used water from another fairly mature system with nitrates around 5 as the replacement water. 2-27 I did an 8g water change . 2-28 13 gallons. 3-1 4 gallons. I save my old water for emergencies and I also do daily water changes on my other tanks, that's the reason I have the water to use. No sense dumping it down the drain right?
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Can you summarize what would be different. I've read a lot of your posts and was under the impression API kits were inaccurate but thought the sailfert not so bad? It shows when I have low ammonia, 1.5 to 0.5 and then to 0 But now its 1.5 and no longer going to 0.5 or better yet 0. What is your opinion on the cycle stage at this point? Nitrates present toss a fish in? I have mollies swimming around in my sump. Thanks
ENT
If you had seneye it would show .00x ppm nh3 most likely. All systems do given your arrangement and timing
Non digital kits simply misread, there are no digitally tracked cycles at your # of days underwater plus living materials transferred in as a boost from a running system lacking ability. It's hard to accept these non digital test kits as wrong i know, it'll help if we try and find any ten day cycles using bottle bac and live materials that couldn't command ammonia by day ten, find them among the seneye posts uploaded.
If you had seneye it would show .00x ppm nh3 most likely. All systems do given your arrangement and timing
Non digital kits simply misread, there are no digitally tracked cycles at your # of days underwater plus living materials transferred in as a boost from a running system lacking ability. It's hard to accept these non digital test kits as wrong i know, it'll help if we try and find any ten day cycles using bottle bac and live materials that couldn't command ammonia by day ten, find them among the seneye posts uploaded.
Good point.
It may not matter one bit if the initial bacteria are more fit long-term or not.
Optimal is not necessary in cycling. Good enough is good enough.
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