Flukes? Nightmare Situation

[underthereef]

Hi, I have a potential nightmare situation unfolding:

after being unsure that my DT may have been contaminated with ich or velvet despite doing medicated QT, (because I thought I saw white spots on my blenny come and go and then appear on my white tail tang along with scratching from the blenny and twitching from the tang) I decided to pull all my fish and do TTM for velvet/ich and also dosed prazi and metro (for the second time) just in case.

Fast forward to approx 50 days fallow and fish in QT, I am noticing rapid breathing and unusual behavior like lethargy (less swimming). Appetite is still good. One other weird thing that happened just before this started was 1 clownfish developed what looked like Popeye for a few days and recovered.

It’s a 20g long (17g water) with big filter and air stone. No ammonia and 10ppm nitrates. Still reading high nitrites and doing 5g water changes weekly.
-sailfin tang, white tail tang, 2 clowns, blenny, and dwarf flame angelfish

Fearing that TTM didn’t work or that I have prazi resistant flukes this whole time. I did fresh water dips on my sailfin and white tail and at first glance looked like nothing but after stirring the water this gathered to the center:

is this flukes? Or something else?

Another question: even though nitrite aren’t harmful, can they still deplete fishes ability to take in oxygen? I don’t know what else could be causing this.

 

[underthereef]

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Pictures of the fish taken in white light are needed, preferably a video. What test kits are you using? API is not reliable.

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[sc50964]

That’s too many fish for a 20L.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, I have a potential nightmare situation unfolding:

after being unsure that my DT may have been contaminated with ich or velvet despite doing medicated QT, (because I thought I saw white spots on my blenny come and go and then appear on my white tail tang along with scratching from the blenny and twitching from the tang) I decided to pull all my fish and do TTM for velvet/ich and also dosed prazi and metro (for the second time) just in case.

Fast forward to approx 50 days fallow and fish in QT, I am noticing rapid breathing and unusual behavior like lethargy (less swimming). Appetite is still good. One other weird thing that happened just before this started was 1 clownfish developed what looked like Popeye for a few days and recovered.

It’s a 20g long (17g water) with big filter and air stone. No ammonia and 10ppm nitrates. Still reading high nitrites and doing 5g water changes weekly.
-sailfin tang, white tail tang, 2 clowns, blenny, and dwarf flame angelfish

Fearing that TTM didn’t work or that I have prazi resistant flukes this whole time. I did fresh water dips on my sailfin and white tail and at first glance looked like nothing but after stirring the water this gathered to the center:

View attachment 3071047
View attachment 3071047
is this flukes? Or something else?

Another question: even though nitrite aren’t harmful, can they still deplete fishes ability to take in oxygen? I don’t know what else could be causing this.

TTM as far as Im concerned stresses fish as you are moving them from tank to tank and it is difficult to replicate PH, and overall conditions. Having all these in a 20 long does not help the cause and best in a 40 Breeder minimum but even a 29g is better with added height.
the substance pictured are not flukes and likely some form of sediment. Unless they are Neobendedia flukes, you likely wont see them. My suspicion is water quality issue over flukes but can best be determined with pics/video of fish under white lighting.
Are they breathing normal or rapid?
Are they eating ?

Regarding Nitrite, disregard unless sky high (over 100) and should have no impact on the fish's behavior.

 

[underthereef]

here are a couple videos of the fish today after FWD last night they are a little shy.
Another key symptom I forgot to mention: the two tangs are flexing their gills open, almost like holding them extremely wide open for periods of about 5 seconds or so randomly. Something I never seen them do before. Not constant but I noticed it a handful of times yesterday.

@vetteguy53081 could it still be sediment if there is no sand in the tank? Appetite is still good. I finished TTM weeks ago now though almost a month and they were fine afterwards so I don’t think it would be stress from that.
Appetite is still good, breathing seems rapid and swimming pattern has changed from norm. More lethargy (swim then stop and rest).

I am using ammonia alert badge and my API test kit is an accurate one, I’ve cross tested it with my salifert test kit numerous times… Unless that one is not accurate as well. Lol.

 

[underthereef]

Got a good video of the white tail:

 

[underthereef]

The white tail tang is now experiencing degradation of his fins after the FWD. does that give any clues to anything?
1 clownfish is now mostly resting on the floor. Not sure what to do… I did another water change earlier.

 

[vetteguy53081]

View attachment 3071144
View attachment 3071144

here are a couple videos of the fish today after FWD last night they are a little shy.
Another key symptom I forgot to mention: the two tangs are flexing their gills open, almost like holding them extremely wide open for periods of about 5 seconds or so randomly. Something I never seen them do before. Not constant but I noticed it a handful of times yesterday.

@vetteguy53081 could it still be sediment if there is no sand in the tank? Appetite is still good. I finished TTM weeks ago now though almost a month and they were fine afterwards so I don’t think it would be stress from that.
Appetite is still good, breathing seems rapid and swimming pattern has changed from norm. More lethargy (swim then stop and rest).

I am using ammonia alert badge and my API test kit is an accurate one, I’ve cross tested it with my salifert test kit numerous times… Unless that one is not accurate as well. Lol.

I trust salifert tests. Api known and notorious for false readings.
Holding gills open is not good and may suggest flukes. Some signs of flukes are :
Clamped fins, rapid breathing. loss of appetite, darting, scratching.
If you take all the decor out of that tank with no sand, you in essence have a quarantine tank which you can utilize to get these fish healthy.
Diet - What foods are you feeding ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Got a good video of the white tail:
View attachment 3071252

On the fins, I see small bite marks/nipping in which the clowns are my suspects. The white tail is holding mouth open suggesting low oxygen. Add a pump and air stone ASAP

 

[underthereef]

On the fins, I see small bite marks/nipping in which the clowns are my suspects. The white tail is holding mouth open suggesting low oxygen. Add a pump and air stone ASAP

So I already have a large air stone in the tank with a large double bio wheel filter and the water line is below the water falling into the tank. Should I add another air stone?

the clowns have never nipped at the tang and these fin symptoms showed up in the last several hours. Is it possible a FWD can irritate fins?

I’ve also already treated these fish with prazi/metro combinations two full times in the past (once during initial QT, once during TTM). Would you suggest dosing again or what else should I do?

right now I am feeding marine cuisine and nori.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Yes, it won't hurt to add another airstone.

 

[underthereef]

Yes, it won't hurt to add another airstone.

Air stone added

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I already have a large air stone in the tank with a large double bio wheel filter and the water line is below the water falling into the tank. Should I add another air stone?

the clowns have never nipped at the tang and these fin symptoms showed up in the last several hours. Is it possible a FWD can irritate fins?

I’ve also already treated these fish with prazi/metro combinations two full times in the past (once during initial QT, once during TTM). Would you suggest dosing again or what else should I do?

right now I am feeding marine cuisine and nori.

No - did not see airstone in video.
FWD would not cause this and tail rot would not have occurred this quickly as it will not cause this. They will needed added diet but right now not of urgency. For prazi, they may not have been properly treated.
With Prazi, to be safe , dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite

 

[Fishy888]

It’s possible the clowns are doing their nipping while you’re not there. Clownfish are damsels at heart and if they’re stressed enough..,

 

[LOONEBIN]

I saw that you mentioned nitrites still in the water. How high are the nitrites? Nitrite will bind with hemoglobin in the fish’s blood to form methemoglobin. Methemoglobin does not carry oxygen. Fish will gasp, breathe heavily and may exhibit signs they are suffering from some sort of parasite. Just a thought, since you seem to have medicated the fish well and the chance of it being a parasite seems to be low.

 

[Spare time]

I saw that you mentioned nitrites still in the water. How high are the nitrites? Nitrite will bind with hemoglobin in the fish’s blood to form methemoglobin. Methemoglobin does not carry oxygen. Fish will gasp, breathe heavily and may exhibit signs they are suffering from some sort of parasite. Just a thought, since you seem to have medicated the fish well and the chance of it being a parasite seems to be low.

It's only a realistic concern with freshwater fish due to the nature of saltwater.

 

[underthereef]

It's only a realistic concern with freshwater fish due to the nature of saltwater.

Does that mean nitrates are also not really a concern for saltwater fish?

 

[underthereef]

Well, over the past 24 hours I had been seeing some improvements in all the fish. I added the extra air stone and also did a series of large water changes and supplemented their food. However, just in the last few hours this showed up on my white tail tang. Any idea what it is? It looks kind of like a “blister under the skin.” And I noticed sometimes the gill on that side wasn’t moving while the other side was. But then sometimes it was moving the same as the opposite side.

 

[underthereef]

Now my sailfin tang is getting these subtle little porcupine nodules all over his body and fins. Doesn’t seem like ich to me? This is driving me crazy because all the fish are getting weird different symptoms. Haven’t dosed any medication yet. Just focusing on water qualify and food supplementation.