Fish breathing fast most likely not a disease...

[mjaquarium02]

OK so long story short around March 9, 2024 I noticed my fish (2 clowns) breathing heavily and I didn't know what was going on. I bought at that time, a cardinal fish from my local fish store and thought maybe it was a disease brought by that new fish. It was weird because my two clown fishes were the only ones presenting symptoms of heavy breathing, fatigue, and loss of appetite. My new cardinal fish was perfectly fine. In addition these symptoms presented around a month or so after buying the cardinal fish... My clowns looked far from normal. I did so many water changes, and it didn't work at all. I changed my carbon filter as well. No white dots no excessive slime coating, etc to point towards a disease. But things were getting bad quickly, and I didn't know what else to do, but quarantine everyone. I played my luck and dosed copper for the recommended time hoping that would help. I left my display tank fallow for 72 days just to be safe, even though I still didn't know what was going on. On the second day of dosing copper, my clownfishes were back to normal, but I still kept them under observation in quarantine until 72 days passed.

Fast forward 72 days..... Literally, three days ago... I finally put everybody back into my display tank. Please keep in mind that during quarantine I did do water changes on my DT and QT but was very cautious in cross contamination. The first day I put them back in my DT they were very happy, as was I. They were eating they were swimming all good signs. But today they look just like they used to during March. And now, my cardinal fish is experiencing the same thing! I checked my water parameters, they all are fine. There's no doubt in my mind that I will put them back in the quarantine tank (thank goodness I did not break it down) but what should I do with my display tank??? I've even went to my local fish store so they can check out my water and they said it was fine.... I'm considering checking my water through ATI ICP test kit and send it off or start from scratch and take all of the water out from my DT. What are your opinions and advice on this?
I also noticed recently, that when I feed my fishes, I use frozen food and some tweezers. The tweezers have rusted, so maybe that's what's causing this???? No idea.. just a thought.

Some key factors that I think it's good to know for decision-making;
- DT is 29 gallons
- QT is 10 gallons
- I only have three fishes ( two clowns and one cardinal)
- I have one skunk cleaner shrimp, along with snails and hermit crabs.
- Two corals ( a zoa and gsp fairly small could easily transport if need be)
- I have my own RODI water system.. I could easily get more water at home.

Any info helps :/

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

This sounds like it may be a good question for the #fishmedic crew.

Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

• Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
  • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
  • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
• Current water quality measurements
• Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[mjaquarium02]

This sounds like it may be a good question for the #fishmedic crew.

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you!

Parameters:
Salinity: 1.025 (salinity refractometer)
Ammonia: 0 (Red Sea)
Nitrite: 0 (Red Sea)
Nitrate: 5 (Red Sea)
Alk: 8.6 (Salifert)

I used Coppersafe for an entire month to quarantine. This started with only my clownfishes acting weird back in March but I still quarantined my cardinal fish. Now that they are all in my DT, my cardinal fish is having the same symptoms as well as my clowns again.

OH and i dont know if this helps but my corals havent been growing as much as they should by now. I've had the zoa for 6 months and it's still in its frag plug....

My DT has been up and running for a year now with a HOB filter.

 

[Jekyl]

Can you please explain your quarantine and copper treatment done? Also some white light photos and a 20-30 second video of the fish with breathing issues. Also what test is being used for copper? (Sorry if I missed it)

 

[mjaquarium02]

Can you please explain your quarantine and copper treatment done? Also some white light photos and a 20-30 second video of the fish with breathing issues. Also what test is being used for copper? (Sorry if I missed it)

My quarantine process includes keeping copper at 2.0ppm for an entire month while also observing for ammonia (since my qt wasn’t cycled at that time) when doing water changes I would siphon it water out from my QT and prepare the water im going to pour in with copper so it would still maintain an appropriate range…. i would use the same siphon to do wc in my DT but i would leave it out in the sun for days before using it again and vice a versa.

this is a video i took earlier today i don’t know why its blurry…. but you can tell they’re opening and closing their mouths faster than they should. you can’t really tell as well but their gills are also working hard. sometimes they have the energy to swim up the tank but majority of the time they’re “swimming” in the sand in one spot not doing much but breathing fast.

 

[mjaquarium02]

Can you please explain your quarantine and copper treatment done? Also some white light photos and a 20-30 second video of the fish with breathing issues. Also what test is being used for copper? (Sorry if I missed it)

i’m using a hanna checker to check the copper ranges!!

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

My DT has been up and running for a year now with a HOB filter.

If your 29 gallon tank has only a hob filter and nothing else, I suspect low oxygen.

Looking at the video, there are no powerheads, the water is obviously stagnant and not moving at all. Try to get a powerhead in the tank (2 is better) and point one of the powerheads at the water surface to create agitation and help with oxygenation. Flow is very important in a reef tank, corals need flow and oxygen too, just as much as the fish.

Flow will definitely help you corals, but what about the lights, what kind of lighting do you have?

What is the phosphate level? Zoa's and gsp like water with measureable nitrate and phosphate, your nitrate level is very low, what about the phosphate?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I also think you should rule out low oxygen or high CO2 first. While powerhead can help, they need to strongly break the surface tension of the water with bubbles. I find a small air pump and an airstone works better for that.

If additional aeration doesn’t solve the problem overnight, then we need to think about disease issues - possibly flukes, which copper doesn’t fully control.

 

[mjaquarium02]

If your 29 gallon tank has only a hob filter and nothing else, I suspect low oxygen.

Looking at the video, there are no powerheads, the water is obviously stagnant and not moving at all. Try to get a powerhead in the tank (2 is better) and point one of the powerheads at the water surface to create agitation and help with oxygenation. Flow is very important in a reef tank, corals need flow and oxygen too, just as much as the fish.

Flow will definitely help you corals, but what about the lights, what kind of lighting do you have?

What is the phosphate level? Zoa's and gsp like water with measureable nitrate and phosphate, your nitrate level is very low, what about the phosphate?

for the sake of the video, i turned off my powerhead but I usually have it on precisely because of the heavy breathing. i had it on all night and theyre still acting this way.... nevertheless i still bought an airpump and airstone to help with oxygenation.... it's too soon to tell if it has worked but i will keep you guys updated. hopefully by the end of the day, if it is an oxygen issue, things would look better.

As far as lighting I have a AquaIllumination Blade Smart LED Strip - Coral Grow
I had my nitrates at 10 but since I quarantined my fish it dropped to five.... and my phosphate is 0 I do have an algae issue going on...

Should I dose nitrates and phosphate?

 

[mjaquarium02]

I also think you should rule out low oxygen or high CO2 first. While powerhead can help, they need to strongly break the surface tension of the water with bubbles. I find a small air pump and an airstone works better for that.

If additional aeration doesn’t solve the problem overnight, then we need to think about disease issues - possibly flukes, which copper doesn’t fully control.

Thank you! I just bought an airstone and pump... it is too soon to tell if it is working but hopefully by the end of the day things will turn out okay. Ive had this tank up and running for a year and I've never had a problem like this. How can oxygen be the problem all of a sudden? Could it be the algae?

 

[mjaquarium02]

I also think you should rule out low oxygen or high CO2 first. While powerhead can help, they need to strongly break the surface tension of the water with bubbles. I find a small air pump and an airstone works better for that.

If additional aeration doesn’t solve the problem overnight, then we need to think about disease issues - possibly flukes, which copper doesn’t fully control.

so my fish definitely didn’t get any better with the air stone…. i decided to quarantine them. i haven’t dosed anything yet but i see them so much better! they’re swimming around, breathing not as fast, and they actually look better…. this is super weird. now i’m definitely thinking it’s something in my DTs water.

my question is… what should i do with my DTs water? I have no problem in starting over and such but what about my live rock? and biofilters. i heard they can retain some meds… so would they also retain whatever is in the water? i wouldn’t want to start over, use the live rocks and because they retain whatever chemical is going on, i will be back to square one again….

any tips?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

so my fish definitely didn’t get any better with the air stone…. i decided to quarantine them. i haven’t dosed anything yet but i see them so much better! they’re swimming around, breathing not as fast, and they actually look better…. this is super weird. now i’m definitely thinking it’s something in my DTs water.

my question is… what should i do with my DTs water? I have no problem in starting over and such but what about my live rock? and biofilters. i heard they can retain some meds… so would they also retain whatever is in the water? i wouldn’t want to start over, use the live rocks and because they retain whatever chemical is going on, i will be back to square one again….

any tips?

I'm still not convinced it is some toxin in the DT. The GSP and other invertebrates would react to toxins, even more easily than fish will.

There is another possible reason why the fish improved when you moved them: many fish diseases have a life cycle where they spend part of their time off of the fish. When you move the fish to a new tank, that disrupts their life cycle (the reason that the tank transfer method sometimes works to control diseases). However, it that is the case, in a few days, the parasites still on the fish will begin to reproduce in the new tank, and the infection will start back up again.

 

[mjaquarium02]

I'm still not convinced it is some toxin in the DT. The GSP and other invertebrates would react to toxins, even more easily than fish will.

There is another possible reason why the fish improved when you moved them: many fish diseases have a life cycle where they spend part of their time off of the fish. When you move the fish to a new tank, that disrupts their life cycle (the reason that the tank transfer method sometimes works to control diseases). However, it that is the case, in a few days, the parasites still on the fish will begin to reproduce in the new tank, and the infection will start back up again.

update:

my skunk cleaner shrimp has passed away definitely contaminated water….. i’m taking everything out and starting from scratch…. what should i do with my live rocks??? put them out in the sun? how many days??

man i should’ve moved my shrimp to quarantine as well

 

[Cell]

You are reacting to an unknown problem which isn't a great way to move forward. If water is the concern I would start with an ICP test and go from there.

To reset rock, I soak in bleach water for a week, rinse and let fully dry in the sun.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

A long time ago had something similar, changed my mixed Media Gravel out, problem went away. That was when the Girls were on a Hair Spray Spree. BTW, Mass Water Changes and Carbon didn’t help.