Filter roler effect on sump level and ATO?

[Zero_Cool]

I have a Klir7 fleece roller installed in a IceCap 36XL sump. This uses an eye to engage the motor when the water level raises in the drain intake chamber. Takes about 1.5 inches of water to advance and once it does this extra water then flows into the sump.

Issue is, during the time this water level is building before the roll advances, the ATO kicks in to fill the return chamber thinking that evaporation is the cause. Once the roll advances then the return chamber is overfull.

Not sure what this is doing to my salinity but I am also concerned about how to dose kalk via a reactor. Feels like too much math.

Am I overthinking?

 

[blaxsun]

You're overthinking it. The amount of water we're talking about is really minimal - unless your ATO is running for like 10 minutes.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Thank you. Figured I was but that is my nature.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Circling back to this. What I have experienced is an overall increase in water volume in the sump that will need to be manually maintained. This has resulted in over a 2 gallon change in water volume in less than 5 hours. This really doesnt effect the salinity as much as the rest of the sump level. It has now raised the water level above the gated baffle between the skimmer and return chambers.

The other issue is the effect on the skimmer following this dump of water. This raises the level in the skimmer section changing the skimming and creating an everchanging water level even with the gated baffle.

Is anyone else experiencing thisband what have you done to mitigate the issue?

 

[EugeneVan]

What is the overall volume of your tank including the sump. I am using 2 Klir 4 for my 210 gal. The drop and rise of the water level with that amount of overall volume doesn't bother anything at all. All my coral and fish are happy. However, if you have a 100 gal tank, then it may matter. Same thing with the sump, my sump is huge, the drop and rise of the water level are at min.

 

[Zero_Cool]

What is the overall volume of your tank including the sump. I am using 2 Klir 4 for my 210 gal. The drop and rise of the water level with that amount of overall volume doesn't bother anything at all. All my coral and fish are happy. However, if you have a 100 gal tank, then it may matter. Same thing with the sump, my sump is huge, the drop and rise of the water level are at min.

Thank you.

The tank is 230 and the sump is the Ice Cap 36xl so about 50 gallons. That said the skimmer section is only about 20 gallons. The issue isn't salinity fluctuations it is that I cannot maintain the water level in the skimmer or return section.

Throughout the day the water level in the drain section rises until the roller is triggered. This means there is approximately 1 gallon of water building up in this area waiting for the roller to move the fleece.

while this is happening the water level.in the return section is dropping by the same amount that is being held by the roller. The ATO is kicking on to refill the return section thinking that it is low. Then the filter triggers releasing this gallon of water back to the sump. Now the return chamber has an extra gallon of water in it.

Repeat this several times throughout the day and the return chamber level starts to get higher than the skimmer section (thus raising the water level in that section). Now I have a constantly fluctuating water level in the sump and no way of actually maintaining consistent skimming or kalk dosing.

I also wonder if thisbis the reason I have been experiencing poor consistency in the overflow. Could increased back pressure in the drain section due to the fluctuating water level there cause a bean animal to drain differently? Twice in the last week I have had water running down the emergency drain line and have had to readjust the gate valve to compensate.

The Klir7 is working exactly as it is meant to. Maybe this tech isn't for me.

 

[EugeneVan]

Thank you.

The tank is 230 and the sump is the Ice Cap 36xl so about 50 gallons. That said the skimmer section is only about 20 gallons. The issue isn't salinity fluctuations it is that I cannot maintain the water level in the skimmer or return section.

Throughout the day the water level in the drain section rises until the roller is triggered. This means there is approximately 1 gallon of water building up in this area waiting for the roller to move the fleece.

while this is happening the water level.in the return section is dropping by the same amount that is being held by the roller. The ATO is kicking on to refill the return section thinking that it is low. Then the filter triggers releasing this gallon of water back to the sump. Now the return chamber has an extra gallon of water in it.

Repeat this several times throughout the day and the return chamber level starts to get higher than the skimmer section (thus raising the water level in that section). Now I have a constantly fluctuating water level in the sump and no way of actually maintaining consistent skimming or kalk dosing.

I also wonder if thisbis the reason I have been experiencing poor consistency in the overflow. Could increased back pressure in the drain section due to the fluctuating water level there cause a bean animal to drain differently? Twice in the last week I have had water running down the emergency drain line and have had to readjust the gate valve to compensate.

The Klir7 is working exactly as it is meant to. Maybe this tech isn't for me.

How did you plug in your Klir7? By taking out the filter sock or using the filter bracket? Are you using the build in sensor with the unit? How long does it take to build up 1 gal. of water before the roller kick in?

 

[Zero_Cool]

How did you plug in your Klir7? By taking out the filter sock or using the filter bracket? Are you using the build in sensor with the unit? How long does it take to build up 1 gal. of water before the roller kick in?

I have an IceCap sump so it drops right into one of the filter sock holes. The other hole gets covered so all of the water goes through the roller.

I installed it with the factory sensor according to the instructions video.

I would guess it takes about 30 minutes to build up to the water level needed to trigger the roller.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I filled my ATO resevoir this morning at 11:00. It is now 5:30. In 4.5 hours my ATO has added 3.5 gallons of top off water to the system and raised the water level in the return chamber 1.5 inches.

I can only attribute this to a mismatch between the amount of water needed to trigger the roller in the drain side and the amount of water reduction needed to trigger the ATO. Currently the ATO is being triggered more than the roller so an incorrect amount of top off water is being added.

It would appear that I need to reduce the amount of water needed to trigger the roller (lowering the sensor eye) so that it triggers before the ATO sensor does. My belief is that the timing needs to be switched for my use.

I would use more filter rolls but not worry about fluctuating water heights.

Does this sound accurate?

How would I go about lowering the Klir sensor eye?

 

[bluerider098]

Can you section of the area where the filter roller is so that it doesn't hold so much water?

Another option is to put your ato on a timer. That way it's not constantly calling for water.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Can you section of the area where the filter roller is so that it doesn't hold so much water?

Another option is to put your ato on a timer. That way it's not constantly calling for water.

How would a timer work on the ATO? That sounds interesting.

I don't think I can section off the drain area though.

 

[TokenReefer]

It would appear that I need to reduce the amount of water needed to trigger the roller (lowering the sensor eye) so that it triggers before the ATO sensor does.

I think that would work but you may burn through more roles. I think I would run the return chamber at a lower base level (move the ATO sensor down). Still doesn't explain the ATO putting more than was removed back in. What brand ato? Could it just be sloppy vs precise so to speak? I can't see it happening... Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Zero_Cool]

I am using. Tunze Osmolator for ATO. I think the additional water is happening because the drain section holds enough water to trigger the ATO before the roller. This then kicks the ATO on for a brief time (happening now every 20 minutes) and then when the roller goes it fills the return to over full. Then the cycle starts again.

This adds just a bit more water than is evaporated each time.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I am using. Tunze Osmolator for ATO. I think the additional water is happening because the drain section holds enough water to trigger the ATO before the roller. This then kicks the ATO on for a brief time (happening now every 20 minutes) and then when the roller goes it fills the return to over full. Then the cycle starts again.

This adds just a bit more water than is evaporated each time.

I’m curious and am probably reading this wrong but is your ato sensor in the drain/filter section?

 

[Zero_Cool]

No. The ATO sensor is in the return section.

The Klir7 has it's own sensor that tells it when the roll need to be turned.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Now I have water coming through the emergency drain that I had to adjust this morning. This is an issue.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

No. The ATO sensor is in the return section.

The Klir7 has it's own sensor that tells it when the roll need to be turned.

Gotcha, like I said read it wrong. Is there a bypass on the klir? Some rollers have this to allow some flow to bypass the roller which should help keep the level in the sump from changing as drastically.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Can you post a couple extra pictures of your sump/plumbing? This might help some of us catch exactly where the issue might be. Something not obvious to you might be elucidated with some more pictures of a full shot of the sump area.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Gotcha, like I said read it wrong. Is there a bypass on the klir? Some rollers have this to allow some flow to bypass the roller which should help keep the level in the sump from changing as drastically.

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[ReefLife_Guy]

I have a 142 gallon with a severely undersized sump (Trigger systems Platinum 26) with both a skimmer and a filter roller and my return pump is set to ramp up during the days and ramp down during the evening but even with all that I have very minimal changes in my return chamber which is probably like 5 gallons if that.

I haven’t actually decided on a new ATO yet since my upgrade and just have been manually kicking on my ATO with a small pump and my apex. The issue you are having with too much water at some point makes me think your flow rate of inflow and overflow are not matching and that is why you are having too much water and then too little water. My filter roller chamber fills maybe an inch before it rolls some but I also have a float sensor not an optical sensor.