Feeding Neogonodactylus wennerae Mantes?

[Fish Fan]

Hey guys! I have an idea for a Mantis tank based on an IM Nuvo 10 and using Tampa Bay Saltwater's Mantis Treasure Chest, which includes a very small, 1/2" Neogonodactylus wennerae, as well as a few pounds each of their live rock and sand, and some "Gorilla crab snacks", as they say.

Going with the plural of Mantis as Mantes, which seems correct to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong

I have for years been interested in these amazing animals, but I thought that since I live in land-locked upstate New York that feeding them would be crazy expensive. I can't go down to the seashore and legally harvest crabs and critters to feed a Mantis. And, I can't afford to mail order live marine crabs, shrimps, snails, etc. to continually feed a Mantis. Plus, while my wife would definitely think a Mantis is a very cool creature, she would not at all like the idea of the Mantis relentlessly killing animals like fish, crabs and shrimp. My DW is an animal lover, Science bless her

My questions is, if this is even possible, what can I feed an N. wennerae that I can obtain easily and inexpensively in Upstate New York. I think these Mantes will go for some frozen foods and pellets, but I am pretty sure that they need some kind of live food here and there for their wellbeing. And the wellbeing of the Mantis would be my primary concern.

I have read about "clams on the half shell" for Mantes. Are these literally clams that you buy at the supermarket? I LOVE seafood, but don't eat clams, lol! And if so, would an N. Wennerae go for those little neck clams I see at the supermarket? If so, it may be affordable to keep one of these critters after all.

Also, would the Mantis eat anything like freshwater ghost shrimp? I can sneak those to the Mantis when the wife is not looking ;-)

Is there anything else I can feed a Neogonodactylus wennerae that would be easily obtainable in my part of the world?

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Coffee Soundboard]

You should be fine feeding clams on the half shell (I buy mine frozen), and supplementing with live snails/hermits. I have a small peacock and he seems to really like the clams. He also grabs mysis and stuff as I'm feeding the fish. As my CUC gets depleted I just order more. Back in the day I fed my old mantis a small crayfish. I didn't notice any ill effects, but I probably wouldn't make it a habit. Since your mantis will only be 1/2" long, you'll probably want to feed chopped up squid or something similar. Feeding tongs worked well with my peacock when he was quite small. Either way, you'll probably want to keep some live food in with him at all times, as he grows out. Are you trying to put 2 mantis in the same tank?

 

[Fish Fan]

You should be fine feeding clams on the half shell (I buy mine frozen), and supplementing with live snails/hermits. I have a small peacock and he seems to really like the clams. He also grabs mysis and stuff as I'm feeding the fish. As my CUC gets depleted I just order more. Back in the day I fed my old mantis a small crayfish. I didn't notice any ill effects, but I probably wouldn't make it a habit. Since your mantis will only be 1/2" long, you'll probably want to feed chopped up squid or something similar. Feeding tongs worked well with my peacock when he was quite small. Either way, you'll probably want to keep some live food in with him at all times, as he grows out. Are you trying to put 2 mantis in the same tank?

Thank you for your reply! No, I'm not trying to keep two Mantes together, just one and ideally some RFA's

Where are you ordering your clean up crews so that it's affordable to feed a Mantis? How much does yours eat, and how often do you have to order a clean up crew pack?

And really, what the heck are "clams on the half shell", and how do I feed them to a Mantis? I am imagining a large half clam that you'd get at a restaurant. How do you offer that to a Mantis?

And, will they take little neck clams, which are reasonably inexpensive and available live where I'm located?

Are there any other live foods I can offer a Mantis that I can get at my local supermarket or a freshwater fish shop?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Coffee Soundboard]

Anytime! I order my CUC from reefcleaners.org. I'm not really sure how often he eats a crab/snail. I probably restock the tank every couple months, or whenever I stop seeing stuff running around.

These are the clams on a half shell I've been feeding him. I'll offer him one of those clams every 3 days or so. If he doesn't eat it I just pull it back out and toss it. I feed them to him by unthawing in tank water, then using long feeder tongs I hold it for him to come snag.

I'm not familiar with little neck clams. If they're from the ocean, they would probably be fine. If you have an LFS nearby, you might be able to have them hold any gorilla crabs they come across for you.

 

[Fish Fan]

Anytime! I order my CUC from reefcleaners.org. I'm not really sure how often he eats a crab/snail. I probably restock the tank every couple months, or whenever I stop seeing stuff running around.

These are the clams on a half shell I've been feeding him. I'll offer him one of those clams every 3 days or so. If he doesn't eat it I just pull it back out and toss it. I feed them to him by unthawing in tank water, then using long feeder tongs I hold it for him to come snag.

I'm not familiar with little neck clams. If they're from the ocean, they would probably be fine. If you have an LFS nearby, you might be able to have them hold any gorilla crabs they come across for you.

Thanks again! Little neck clams are really popular in the North East, they are for sure a sea critter, available live, and about slightly smaller than a golf ball, I'd say. I can get these, for example.

https://shop.wegmans.com/product/9727/wegmans-live-farm-raised-littleneck-clams-50-ct-bag

Are these in any way appropriate for an N. wennerae Mantis?

 

[Fishfreak2009]

My N. wennerae loves frozen jumbo mysis, frozen clam on the half shell, and the occasional blue leg hermit from the LFS. Has done quite well on that diet for the 5 or so months I've had him.

 

[Coffee Soundboard]

Thanks again! Little neck clams are really popular in the North East, they are for sure a sea critter, available live, and about slightly smaller than a golf ball, I'd say. I can get these, for example.

https://shop.wegmans.com/product/9727/wegmans-live-farm-raised-littleneck-clams-50-ct-bag

Are these in any way appropriate for an N. wennerae Mantis?

Those should be fine I'd think, once he gets bigger.

 

[Fish Fan]

My N. wennerae loves frozen jumbo mysis, frozen clam on the half shell, and the occasional blue leg hermit from the LFS. Has done quite well on that diet for the 5 or so months I've had him.

Thank you! Good to know and great pics for sure!

Are the clams on a half shell a frozen fish food that I get at an LFS in the freezer section, or is this something I get at the supermarket?

 

[Fish Fan]

Those should be fine I'd think, once he gets bigger.

I can order an individual Mantis that is more like 2", would a larger individual be easier to feed?

 

[Coffee Soundboard]

I can order an individual Mantis that is more like 2", would a larger individual be easier to feed?

I got my peacock at about 1", so pretty small for a peacock, and I had no issues feeding him. He's definitely bolder now that he's larger. You shouldn't have any issues feeding him, as long as he doesn't feel threatened by anything. I don't have any experience with that species though.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Thank you! Good to know and great pics for sure!

Are the clams on a half shell a frozen fish food that I get at an LFS in the freezer section, or is this something I get at the supermarket?

Frozen fish food section at your LFS (Hikari brand as is the jumbo mysis).

 

[Fish Fan]

I can order an individual Mantis that is more like 2", would a larger individual be easier to feed?

Frozen fish food section at your LFS (Hikari brand as is the jumbo mysis).

Thank you so much, I was so confused by the clams lol!

 

[Stomatopods17]

My N. Wenneraes all got frozen krill.

They’re not picky eaters and can scavenge like most inverts. You can even just spray or dump mysis and watch them swim around and catch it.

 

[Fish Fan]

My N. Wenneraes all got frozen krill.

They’re not picky eaters and can scavenge like most inverts. You can even just spray or dump mysis and watch them swim around and catch it.

Good to know, thank you! To be honest, I have held off on getting a Mantis for years because I thought they really needed live foods all the time. Great to know that they can do well on frozen too.

Let me ask this please: I see a lot of Mantis keepers using a PVC tunnel under the rocks. Is this really the best thing for them? I have a rockscape in mind where the rock would for something of a natural tunnel. And, I thought the Mantis would naturally make its own tunnel under the rocks. Is it best to give them the PVC tunnel or let them do their own thing?

Thanks guys!

 

[Stomatopods17]

For N. wennerae no, they don't tunnel, you just want a rock with a lot of texture to it (holes, cavities, etc) and the mantis will bore a hole in it with the clubs. You also want substrate that isn't too fine as it'll use that to create a 'door' to that hole closing it every night.

(not mine, but notice how its hole is)

N. wennerae lives in rock cavities with 1 front entrance, it'll mine it out and you'll see its eyes peeping through that hole. It'll occasionally stroll a bit (I had mine stroll into compartments it didn't belong all the time), but for the most part it'll stationary wait for something to come past (like mysis, you'll see it dart in and out of the hole as it floats by, or stick a piece of krill on a tooth pick and hand feed it for interaction). They are a diurnal species (day time) and will seal up at night time and stay peeping out during the day.

Once it settles in a cavity, you can rotate the rock anyway you wish for viewing, it likely won't move. My personal favorite way to do N. wennerae is as a small desktop species, such as in a fluval 2.6 or 5 gallon and decorate around it after settling. NEVER in plastic, ultra thin glass, or cheap betta style tank, N. wennerae is the only species I've had break outs with due to underestimating it, and multiple times at that, definitely don't consider it contained in those critter carriers, betta quality tanks, etc. Lay sheet of acrylic/pexi on bottom of aquarium like any other species. One got loose in my tank cause I kept it in a floating betta breeder and it overnight shattered through, a few others busted out at LFS holding them in those carrying containers. Its not well known as a species to chip glass, but I'd take the precautions at least until it settles in a rock just to sleep first couple nights especially if you do desktop route with electronics nearby.

PVC is good as a crutch for larger species that have really specific burrowing requirements, such as O. scyllarus which need a 2 entrance U-shaped burrow, PVC is one way to simulate this but IME still not the best if you can make something more natural, my S. rugosa is in PVC currently but I give it deep sand as an option it seemed never to take interest in, my O. scyllarus isn't in PVC and she's doing phenomenally well, to the point it makes me think all the other O. scyllarus were done wrong. Its worth noting half the time mantis shrimp owners use PVC they aren't using it right either so its a bit of a beginner's trap (more often than not on content creators especially, you'll see PVC thats either a straight line, elbows incorrectly positioned, more than 2 entrances or only 1, etc). N. wennerae isn't a species that will use PVC at all as they bore directly into the rock, in testing facilities sometimes you can silicone PVC directly on the wall of the container and let them simulate boring into the side of the confinement, but as a pet it's better to buy a rock with a lot of starting points for it or drill holes yourself as starting points if its too smooth.

n_wennerae

N. wennerae is a very small hardy species, but they're personally one of my favorites when put in something small, great species to have on an office desk or similar, in a 10 gallon there's a lot of wasted unused space you'll feel like could've been used up with something else pretty quickly, you will see them move around here and there but unless you're sitting next to that tank all day it easy to miss out on those moments. Stomatopods in general aren't picky eaters, I primarily give all mine frozen, the live food is always either dumping a large order of CUC at once in the tank and letting them do their thing over months inbetween feedings, or euthanizing something I find at the LFS they'd be willing to low charge or give me free. The only one that's annoying for me is the S. rugosa cause I hate using silversides and she primarily eats fish. I never have issues with stocking up on food, infact the bigger issue is running out before its wasted and freeze burnt, I've never 'ran out' even with multiple species at a time I usually just pick a random moment where I've got nothing better to do but replace all the food in the freezer once or twice a year so if its a "stocking up over winter" issue, it won't be one genuinely.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you so much for the reply, that's great information!

For N. wennerae no, they don't tunnel, you just want a rock with a lot of texture to it (holes, cavities, etc) and the mantis will bore a hole in it with the clubs. You also want substrate that isn't too fine as it'll use that to create a 'door' to that hole closing it every night.

I will be using aquacultured live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. Their sand is a course mix of rubble and shells. I am also planning to get my N. wennerae from TBS as well.

N. wennerae lives in rock cavities with 1 front entrance, it'll mine it out and you'll see its eyes peeping through that hole. It'll occasionally stroll a bit (I had mine stroll into compartments it didn't belong all the time), but for the most part it'll stationary wait for something to come past (like mysis, you'll see it dart in and out of the hole as it floats by, or stick a piece of krill on a tooth pick and hand feed it for interaction). They are a diurnal species (day time) and will seal up at night time and stay peeping out during the day.

Once it settles in a cavity, you can rotate the rock anyway you wish for viewing, it likely won't move. My personal favorite way to do N. wennerae is as a small desktop species, such as in a fluval 2.6 or 5 gallon and decorate around it after settling. NEVER in plastic, ultra thin glass, or cheap betta style tank, N. wennerae is the only species I've had break outs with due to underestimating it, and multiple times at that, definitely don't consider it contained in those critter carriers, betta quality tanks, etc. Lay sheet of acrylic/pexi on bottom of aquarium like any other species. One got loose in my tank cause I kept it in a floating betta breeder and it overnight shattered through, a few others busted out at LFS holding them in those carrying containers. Its not well known as a species to chip glass, but I'd take the precautions at least until it settles in a rock just to sleep first couple nights especially if you do desktop route with electronics nearby.

The Mantis will go in an IM Nuvo 10 or 15 AIO. Do I need the screen top?

PVC is good as a crutch for larger species that have really specific burrowing requirements, such as O. scyllarus which need a 2 entrance U-shaped burrow, PVC is one way to simulate this but IME still not the best if you can make something more natural, my S. rugosa is in PVC currently but I give it deep sand as an option it seemed never to take interest in, my O. scyllarus isn't in PVC and she's doing phenomenally well, to the point it makes me think all the other O. scyllarus were done wrong. Its worth noting half the time mantis shrimp owners use PVC they aren't using it right either so its a bit of a beginner's trap (more often than not on content creators especially, you'll see PVC thats either a straight line, elbows incorrectly positioned, more than 2 entrances or only 1, etc). N. wennerae isn't a species that will use PVC at all as they bore directly into the rock, in testing facilities sometimes you can silicone PVC directly on the wall of the container and let them simulate boring into the side of the confinement, but as a pet it's better to buy a rock with a lot of starting points for it or drill holes yourself as starting points if its too smooth.

n_wennerae

I would prefer to just skip the PVC if an N. wennerae doesn't need it, but good to know if I ever consider another species.

N. wennerae is a very small hardy species, but they're personally one of my favorites when put in something small, great species to have on an office desk or similar, in a 10 gallon there's a lot of wasted unused space you'll feel like could've been used up with something else pretty quickly, you will see them move around here and there but unless you're sitting next to that tank all day it easy to miss out on those moments. Stomatopods in general aren't picky eaters, I primarily give all mine frozen, the live food is always either dumping a large order of CUC at once in the tank and letting them do their thing over months inbetween feedings, or euthanizing something I find at the LFS they'd be willing to low charge or give me free. The only one that's annoying for me is the S. rugosa cause I hate using silversides and she primarily eats fish. I never have issues with stocking up on food, infact the bigger issue is running out before its wasted and freeze burnt, I've never 'ran out' even with multiple species at a time I usually just pick a random moment where I've got nothing better to do but replace all the food in the freezer once or twice a year so if its a "stocking up over winter" issue, it won't be one genuinely.

That's really great to hear about their feeding, and just what I hope to do, meaning feed the Mantis largely frozen foods, but let him have the occasional CUC as well. Honestly, my wife absolutely hates the idea of killing anything to feed something else, even if it's totally natural. Though I know she'll be very interested in the Mantis, she is not going to want to see it constantly killing fish and shrimp and what not. I'm hoping she won't really notice if the tank goes from 6 snails to 5 ;-)

You have me thinking about the tank size. I had thought about an IM Nuvo 10 or 15, but if I've also been kicking around the idea of a small 2-3 gallon pico. If the N. wennerae were in the +/- 1" range, would it be happy in a 2-3 gallon pico, knowing that I do have larger tanks if/when the pico becomes too small?

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Fish Fan]

Alright, I reached out to TBS with some questions (a lot of questions lol!) and they have been very communicative and helpful. Long story short, they would be able to work out a Treasure Chest package with a Mantis as well, so that is one option. But, they can also air freight these small Treasure Chests cheaper than the UPS to your door option. In fact, it looks like I may be able to get two of their Treasure Chests and air freight them for about $80. I'm still deciding, but this may be my best option, as long as I'm willing to trek to the airport.

 

[Stomatopods17]

2-3 gallon pico would comfortably fit one, just make sure its good glass to avoid any surprises. With small tanks comes parameter challenges so be prepared for that, thankfully N. wennerae is a cockroach and very forgiving for swinging parameters.

I would cover the tank with something, I kept an N. wennerae in my refugium, every month or so i'd have to fish it out of the pump compartment back into the refugium cause it kept hoping over the divider.

Some species are infamously well known jumpers, O. havanensis I was aware as one of them, within 5 or less seconds of putting it in the tank I was reminded being aware wasn't good enough.

 

[Fish Fan]

2-3 gallon pico would comfortably fit one, just make sure its good glass to avoid any surprises. With small tanks comes parameter challenges so be prepared for that, thankfully N. wennerae is a cockroach and very forgiving for swinging parameters.

I would cover the tank with something, I kept an N. wennerae in my refugium, every month or so i'd have to fish it out of the pump compartment back into the refugium cause it kept hoping over the divider.

Some species are infamously well known jumpers, O. havanensis I was aware as one of them, within 5 or less seconds of putting it in the tank I was reminded being aware wasn't good enough.

Good to know, thank you again! I can request a size, what do you think is best? They start at about 1/2", I was originally thinking +/- 1", but I'm wondering if a larger animal would be easier to feed or care for.

 

[Stomatopods17]

1" would be my preference.

Gives time to grow, easier to get started, and still large enough you can see it since it's eyes will be hard to find once it settles.