Dying LPS… no clue why or how to fix it.

[tundraguy1106]

So I’m officially over this hobby. I’ve been in this hobby for about 15 years now. Started with a small 36 gallon tank that I was able to keep everything in. Clams LPS, SPS… everything. That tank was manually dosed two part and had a 150w metal Halide on it.

My current tank is a 120 gallon (4x2x2). I have dual 330 gyres on opposite ends for flow and I have an aquatic life hybrid light fixture running dual hydra 32’s and 4 48” T5 bulbs. PAR in my tank ranges from 3-350 at the top and around 150-180 on the sandbed. The corners are obviously lower. So my tank has been up and running for about two years now. Started off good. Added corals from softies to LPS and up to SPS. I ended up having a mini crash and lost all of my SPS corals. This was due to a lack of nutrients. I started dosing phosphate and nitrate and was able to salvage what was left. This being the mostly softies and the LPS. Unfortunately I tried using polyp booster which caused a phosphate spike (.23 I believe was the number). This was up from .1 over night. A few water changes and phosguard I brought my phosphates back to within range (.08-.12) . However of the course of the next few months I started losing all of my LPS and the last of the SPS. First my torches, some of which showed BJD. Blastos, hammers… everything. The only thing left in my tank now is a Sherman anemone which splits like crazy, a bubble coral which looks like it’s on its last legs, a few blastos (purchased after phosphate spike and have looked good). zoas, ricordia mushroom and 3 gorgonians. One of the mouths on my blastos was wide open yesterday and isn’t looking great (other heads are fine).
Thinking my issue was from the phosphate spike I’ve tried adding new LPS (a few hammers, a Duncan and I tried a fat head dendro. All just slowly deteriorate over a couple months. I also tried a bunch of montiporas but all died as well. I chalked those up to possibly too much light.

I honestly don’t know anymore. The fact I’ve seen some BJD on a few of the dying LPS makes me think I might have a bad bacteria in my tank, but I’m not sure. Was reading up on cipro dosing but again I don’t know if I need to. Some zoas and ricordea mushrooms grow great, others do not. I’m still dosing two part. I also add live phyto and Red Sea aminos a few times per week. I have chaeto in my refugium which runs on an opposite cycle and it grows pretty well. I run an aqua UV sterilizer 54w that runs 24/7. I only turn off for after hours when dosing phyto and aminos. My alkalinity is currently at 8.0 phosphate at .08. I’m testing my other parameters later tonight. They’re always pretty good this why I usually only test alk and phosphates m. I just don’t know what I’m doing wrong. I have more equipment running on this tank than on my old one and can barely keep anything alive. My old tank was able to keep everything and I barely paid attention to it. If you’ve read up to this point I appreciate your time and would really love to know where I’m going wrong.

I’m planning on doing an ICP test soon. I did one last year and my water chemistry was good. Even my RO water was good. I also use Tropic Marin pro salt. Any ideas or solutions would be greatly appreciated. The amount of frustration this tank is causing me, makes me want to just do a fish only system. It’s like throwing money away at this point.

fish list -
Chocolate, purple, Kole tang
Male and female belly’s angels
Pair of clownfish
Pair of leopard wrasses
Golden rhomboid wrasse
Yellow coris wrasse
Golden Midas blenny
Diamond goby
And a red flasher wrasse.

misc inverts and snails.

 

[majesticbigmac]

Hello, first off sorry for your experience, I have had something similar happen to myself. First off, check parameters, all if possible. Anemones are nasty creatures if they want to be, they will nuke a tank without a second thought. Nutrients could be low again, if so make sure dosing is up to standard. I also have a dosed tank and a non dosed, non water changed tank which does not give any problems, while the dosed and water changed does, weirdly. Please post some pictures for further confirmation. Good Luck.

 

[tundraguy1106]

Hello, first off sorry for your experience, I have had something similar happen to myself. First off, check parameters, all if possible. Anemones are nasty creatures if they want to be, they will nuke a tank without a second thought. Nutrients could be low again, if so make sure dosing is up to standard. I also have a dosed tank and a non dosed, non water changed tank which does not give any problems, while the dosed and water changed does, weirdly. Please post some pictures for further confirmation. Good Luck.

My anemone doesn’t move… so unless it’s some chemical warfare then I doubt it’s that. It did just split twice??? This is why it’s so confusing. I’ve had clear issues and then other possible issue that were never confirmed. I do run carbon once a month for a few weeks. Phosphates were just tested at .08. I gotta do nitrates later. They’re usually always steady around 10-12. What kind of pictures? Of the test results?

 

[Lavey29]

Although the water parameters numbers you posted are not that bad att all, BJD shows up when corals are stressed from bad conditions. Run a big bag of carbon just in case BJD is circulating in your tank now. It's a challenging hobby and when I got BJD and brook, I felt like giving up too.

 

[tundraguy1106]

Although the water parameters numbers you posted are not that bad att all, BJD shows up when corals are stressed from bad conditions. Run a big bag of carbon just in case BJD is circulating in your tank now. It's a challenging hobby and when I got BJD and brook, I felt like giving up too.

BJD showed up on my torches after the phosphate spike. Not right after but after a few weeks to a month later which I thought was odd. I would think that a drastic spike would cause immediate results. I corrected the phosphate spike within a day or so….I tried dipping the torches, cutting off infected heads but nothing worked. It didn’t mass spread on me. One torch would die, a few weeks later another. Then my frog spawn, then my hammers not always BJD. Some would just polyp bail out on me. The latest hammer and fat head dendro started shriveling and then polyp bailed out the next day. No BJD observed. Stressful is an understatement! Lol

 

[Lavey29]

BJD showed up on my torches after the phosphate spike. Not right after but after a few weeks to a month later which I thought was odd. I would think that a drastic spike would cause immediate results. I corrected the phosphate spike within a day or so….I tried dipping the torches, cutting off infected heads but nothing worked. It didn’t mass spread on me. One torch would die, a few weeks later another. Then my frog spawn, then my hammers not always BJD. Some would just polyp bail out on me. The latest hammer and fat head dendro started shriveling and then polyp bailed out the next day. No BJD observed. Stressful is an understatement! Lol

I lost 7 expensive corals to BJD but learned how parameters out of balance can stress corals resulting in BJD. I stopped the spread with getting my parameters in check. Then did a chemiclean treatment and finally a big bag of carbon. I have subsequently used ciprofloaxin also when I suspected a reoccurring outbreak and lost no corals. Honestly your phosphate swing is not that bad and I'm not sure it is a primary factor in your coral health decline. Lights, flow and nutrients are key as you know. Get an ICP and make sure your trace elements are good and no metals.

What are your current complete parameters including salinity?

 

[MaxTremors]

I’m going to guess that you’ve got way too much light going. Four T5 bulbs plus two hydra 32s is a lot of light, that’s a setup that I would only use for an SPS dominant tank. What do you have your hydras set to? I would reduce it either just the hydras or just the T5s. I’ve found most LPS does best between 80 and 120 PAR (obviouslt some like less and some more). Your parameter swings aren’t good, but to me it sounds like you might be blasting them with too much light.

 

[Lavey29]

I’m going to guess that you’ve got way too much light going. Four T5 bulbs plus two hydra 32s is a lot of light, that’s a setup that I would only use for an SPS dominant tank. What do you have your hydras set to? I would reduce it either just the hydras or just the T5s. I’ve found most LPS does best between 80 and 120 PAR (obviouslt some like less and some more). Your parameter swings aren’t good, but to me it sounds like you might be blasting them with too much light.

He posted his par numbers in the first post. Isn't that mix of T5 and LED typically better then just LED especially for a mixed reef set up?

 

[Koty]

Sorry for your experience. I things that parameters tell you only part of the story. You said it yourself that the tank you did nothing to did best. When corals are dying it is not always a good idea to cause a drastic change. My take from bjd is that something is wrong beyond what the parameters are telling you. I am starting to understand that in general euphilias are the most intolerant corals. One glitch and they are beginning to decline. I had quiet a few die in my tank and thus decided to: A. Not get any new ones. B. Stick to the corals that survive.
Also IMHO Water change is a high chance of introducing multi-parameter instability that spells more stress.
I did not address the light intensity but if it's high your corals need to be protected from the photo damage namely get enough antioxidants vitamins etc.

 

[tundraguy1106]

I’m going to guess that you’ve got way too much light going. Four T5 bulbs plus two hydra 32s is a lot of light, that’s a setup that I would only use for an SPS dominant tank. What do you have your hydras set to? I would reduce it either just the hydras or just the T5s. I’ve found most LPS does best between 80 and 120 PAR (obviouslt some like less and some more). Your parameter swings aren’t good, but to me it sounds like you might be blasting them with too much light.

This is my current light cycle for the hydras. The T5’s go on at 1pm and shut off at 6pm. Parameters will be posted tomorrow as I didn’t get a chance to test tonight.

 

[tundraguy1106]

I’m going to guess that you’ve got way too much light going. Four T5 bulbs plus two hydra 32s is a lot of light, that’s a setup that I would only use for an SPS dominant tank. What do you have your hydras set to? I would reduce it either just the hydras or just the T5s. I’ve found most LPS does best between 80 and 120 PAR (obviouslt some like less and some more). Your parameter swings aren’t good, but to me it sounds like you might be blasting them with too much light.

I’d tend to think lighting issues would show immediately. Most corals when I place them, if they open up and continue to open up and not bleach out, I leave them. My corals don’t bleach. One day they retract out of nowhere and then over the next few days the heads start popping off or polyp bail out. I literally scooped a green hammer head out of my tank two days ago just blowing around my sandbed.

here’s a list of corals that actually live in my tank. Zoanthids palys, ricordias clove polyps, gorgonians, Sherman rose anemone. That’s what’s alive as of now.

 

[tundraguy1106]

I lost 7 expensive corals to BJD but learned how parameters out of balance can stress corals resulting in BJD. I stopped the spread with getting my parameters in check. Then did a chemiclean treatment and finally a big bag of carbon. I have subsequently used ciprofloaxin also when I suspected a reoccurring outbreak and lost no corals. Honestly your phosphate swing is not that bad and I'm not sure it is a primary factor in your coral health decline. Lights, flow and nutrients are key as you know. Get an ICP and make sure your trace elements are good and no metals.

What are your current complete parameters including salinity?

Parameters will be up tomorrow as I did not have a chance to test them tonight.

 

[Brittanyjo]

Anemone splitting everything else dying makes me wonder about salinity. Refractometers can be inaccurate.....

 

[damsels are not mean]

Phosphate sounds like one of the least likely candidates here. Many "gurus" run higher phosphate than that even some in the integer range, plus even people who do subscribe to the idea that phosphate control is important usually believe also that LPS and softies like "dirty" water.

 

[damsels are not mean]

The symptoms sound like something toxic in the water to me. This reminds me of people talking about when they scraped palythoas and got palytoxin in the water, not that it's palytoxin specifically here. Other than that, light should be turned down. No need to go over 150ish par unless you want SPS to change colors.

 

[Harold999]

To start with, for a mainly LPS tank i would aim for 100 par max at the sandbed, not your 150-180.

 

[HB AL]

Just try and keep it as simple as possible for a while.

 

[tundraguy1106]

Phosphate sounds like one of the least likely candidates here. Many "gurus" run higher phosphate than that even some in the integer range, plus even people who do subscribe to the idea that phosphate control is important usually believe also that LPS and softies like "dirty" water.

Yea after battling Dino’s from low nutrients I started raising my phosphates. The sudden spike overnight from that polyp booster was what I thought caused a lot of what I’m dealing with. I know when I had SPS, a change today may not be noticeable for a month or so.

 

[tundraguy1106]

Just try and keep it as simple as possible for a while.

That’s kind of where I’m at. Sticking with softies for now. Well actually I’ve been doing this for a while. I had two hammers that were looking great and because of this I thought I could start adding some more LPS. Fast forward a month, and those died (same polyp bail out) like the others and the new stuff is on its way out as well. Again I always go back to the phosphate spike because it’s the only thing I’ve detected. That and the corals continue to die the same way.

 

[tundraguy1106]

I lost 7 expensive corals to BJD but learned how parameters out of balance can stress corals resulting in BJD. I stopped the spread with getting my parameters in check. Then did a chemiclean treatment and finally a big bag of carbon. I have subsequently used ciprofloaxin also when I suspected a reoccurring outbreak and lost no corals. Honestly your phosphate swing is not that bad and I'm not sure it is a primary factor in your coral health decline. Lights, flow and nutrients are key as you know. Get an ICP and make sure your trace elements are good and no metals.

What are your current complete parameters including salinity?

Here are my parameters as of just now. Both alkalinity and phosphates have new reagents and I just calibrated my hanna salinity checker. To be honest my test results have no carried much from these lately. Alkalinity is up but I also just lost 2 hammers and a torch so I need to adjust my dozer.