Dying Lionfish, please help

[vaguelyreeflike]

This little dwarf was surrendered, I didn’t realize just how poor condition he was last night and this morning majority of his scales have melted off, as well as his spine coverings and his fins. I’m very attached to this fish, please tell me there’s something I can do to save him?

He won’t eat, understandably as he’s probably in a lot of pain. I’ve offered a variety of frozen and live, but will continue to try. He’s skinny too.

I have methylene blue, but I worry a dip or bath may be too much stress? I also have Lugol’s Iodine and regular povidone iodine 5% for disinfection.

No antibiotics and unable to get them other than chemi clean.

As I type this he is losing color and breathing more heavily.

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

He was in very high salinity and ammonia for an unknown period, and then got extremely cold in the bucket while transporting, but that shouldn’t have done this to him in healthy condition. I just don’t want him to die

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Unfortunately I was too late, he’s gone

But if anyone has suggestions of what I could have done better, or tried differently if this happens again?

Buddy died as soon as I put him in the breeder box despite doing so super gently/slowly.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Unfortunately I was too late, he’s gone

But if anyone has suggestions of what I could have done better, or tried differently if this happens again?

Buddy died as soon as I put him in the breeder box despite doing so super gently/slowly.

Sorry to see.

Without knowing the extent of the transport stress, I can't say how much that contributed to the fish's demise. Scales dropping off like that is pretty unusual, was it in with any other fish?

Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Sorry to see.

Without knowing the extent of the transport stress, I can't say how much that contributed to the fish's demise. Scales dropping off like that is pretty unusual, was it in with any other fish?

Jay

It came from someones tank, was surrendered by a customer. It was in with 3 three stripe damsels and a lemon who were obviously picking on him for a while because he had a lot of new growth on his fins. The water he came with was so high salinity I couldnt test it, I didnt test the ammonia but could smell it so I know that was high too. I didnt have time to drip acclimate him to our tank so I worry that was the last bit of shock that he could handle.

The transport wasn’t horrible but wasnt great, spent maybe an hour or two in a cold bucket while he was on his way here, but I’ve had many fish surrendered that way with no issues so I know this was previous damage/poor health.

His scales literally melted off over night, was full-body peeling. Could this have been from the sudden drop in salinity from way above 1.030+ to 1.026 in my tower?

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Sorry to see.

Without knowing the extent of the transport stress, I can't say how much that contributed to the fish's demise. Scales dropping off like that is pretty unusual, was it in with any other fish?

Jay

After putting him in our tank he was only in with a baby tomini tang (3”), a 2” mandarin, another 3” lionfish the same size as him and a tiny snowflake eel. None of which seemed to bother him or care he was in the tank

 

[MnFish1]

There is no good answer here - I would listen to @Jay Hemdal

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

There is no good answer here - I would listen to @Jay Hemdal

I highly respect Jay’s opinion, so whatever he says I will trust.

Very sad this fish was lost. It sucks when it’s out of my hands. Most surrenders come in good condition but this was really difficult to watch him decline

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Sorry to see.

Without knowing the extent of the transport stress, I can't say how much that contributed to the fish's demise. Scales dropping off like that is pretty unusual, was it in with any other fish?

Jay

I did do a very quick dissection to check the liver, however I believe cause of death was ammonia burn and then just a ton of stress. his gill filaments were almost non-existent, which explains the super heavy breathing.

His liver wasn’t pale or yellow at all, a rich brown-orange color, and no clear damage to any organs. However it was fast and not thorough, just to check the gills and liver, so I definitely could have missed something.

Just super sad all around. I wish there was answers for everything

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I did do a very quick dissection to check the liver, however I believe cause of death was ammonia burn and then just a ton of stress. his gill filaments were almost non-existent, which explains the super heavy breathing.

His liver wasn’t pale or yellow at all, a rich brown-orange color, and no clear damage to any organs. However it was fast and not thorough, just to check the gills and liver, so I definitely could have missed something.

Just super sad all around. I wish there was answers for everything

Wow, if the gill filaments were gone, that does point to ammonia issues. I’ve heard of high ammonia also causing scale loss, but I haven’t seen that myself.

Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Wow, if the gill filaments were gone, that does point to ammonia issues. I’ve heard of high ammonia also causing scale loss, but I haven’t seen that myself.

Jay

I was too upset in the moment, but now I’m really regretting not taking any photos just to have for future personal reference/comparison.

This was the first lionfish I ever ordered in that wasn’t DOA, months ago, and was told he had been doing very well prior to this

Life moves on I guess.

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Wow, if the gill filaments were gone, that does point to ammonia issues. I’ve heard of high ammonia also causing scale loss, but I haven’t seen that myself.

Jay

I can’t get this case off my mind and want to know what to try in the future, even if it’s aimless.
Do you think a methylene blue dip would have had any benefit when the gills are so damaged? Or would it cause more harm?

 

[lion king]

I can’t get this case off my mind and want to know what to try in the future, even if it’s aimless.
Do you think a methylene blue dip would have had any benefit when the gills are so damaged? Or would it cause more harm?

There is nothing you could have done with a lionfish in that condition. With lionfish you have very limited options to rescue. If you get to a point where you are going to start using chemicals like methylene blue, copper, or any of the other products like ruby etc, it's already too late. Any of those products will just make matters worse. If by chance they do recover while using those products, they will succumb soon after. Lionfish do not react well to most of the chemicals you call meds. The best rescue advice is optimum water conditions and live food. They will tolerate prazi pro for flukes and general cure for internal parasites. Very careful and carefully monitored hypo for protazoan diseases

 

[jabberwock]

Sorry for the loss. It sounds like you did the best that you could.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can’t get this case off my mind and want to know what to try in the future, even if it’s aimless.
Do you think a methylene blue dip would have had any benefit when the gills are so damaged? Or would it cause more harm?

Methylene blue is often "prescribed" to help fish with oxygen deficiencies from gill damage. It is reported to serve as a substitute oxygen donor (I think specifically in cases of cyanide poisoning). I've never had it work in this use - it does work as a FW anti-fungal treatment.

In this case, the lion's gill lamellae were missing. That creates a huge amount of open capillaries to the water and the fish just bleeds out, there is nothing that can be done for it if the problem is that severe.

Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Methylene blue is often "prescribed" to help fish with oxygen deficiencies from gill damage. It is reported to serve as a substitute oxygen donor (I think specifically in cases of cyanide poisoning). I've never had it work in this use - it does work as a FW anti-fungal treatment.

In this case, the lion's gill lamellae were missing. That creates a huge amount of open capillaries to the water and the fish just bleeds out, there is nothing that can be done for it if the problem is that severe.

Jay

There is nothing you could have done with a lionfish in that condition. With lionfish you have very limited options to rescue. If you get to a point where you are going to start using chemicals like methylene blue, copper, or any of the other products like ruby etc, it's already too late. Any of those products will just make matters worse. If by chance they do recover while using those products, they will succumb soon after. Lionfish do not react well to most of the chemicals you call meds. The best rescue advice is optimum water conditions and live food. They will tolerate prazi pro for flukes and general cure for internal parasites. Very careful and carefully monitored hypo for protazoan diseases

Sorry for the loss. It sounds like you did the best that you could.

Thank you all for the time and information, its greatly appreciated. I wish every fish was able to be saved, but it’s not that easy. Hopefully this just never happens again