Dry Fit Plumbing Test for 200g, Critique before I glue? Lots of pictures!

[Hezam]

Hello everyone,

I spent 3 days dry fitting PVC and frankly I have no idea what am doing. This is my first time plumbing a reef and at this point I need external help. I read most if not all posts here about plumbing just need a little guidance if I am on the right path here. I will post a ton of pictures since I know how hard it is to explain plumbing by words.

The confusing part for me was fitting this massive UV Unit I bought. its a lifeguard pro max 90w, I have about 275 gallons total system volume and I oversized UV to run it through ALL my returns. So Pump directly into UV into display tank. Since the unit is so big I can turn up the flow and still get adequate flow for the reef tank and dwell times for the UV for mostly algae. Is that thinking correct? I still have the option plumb it through the sump by the manifold with some flex tubing and tune the flow precisely, but I read that's worse because not all of the water is gonna get sterilized. Only thing different I would differently from the pictures in probably raise everything so its near the top and opens up full space in the sump for protein skimmer and future reactors, since the manifold right now is blocking part of the sump. Also I will add another T in the far far right and close it off for a future chiller that will reside in the right cabinet.

For the drain its much simpler, three drains for overflow box bean animal style. There are two designs down below, one with 90s and one with 45, I wanna go with the 90 degree elbow because I have 1.5" drains and I don't think flow will be restricted to be honest. Looks cleaner. Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[Hezam]

This is the sketch I made before dry fitting. Couldn't really execute it well due to the fact that no way the UV unit and manifold can be on the same line. They are way too big. So that's why I had to drop the UV behind the tank and make this loop. Is that okay?

 

[SpursFan]

I would run the UV off the manifold not directly through the main returns. I like the idea but setting proper flow depending on UV goals could be a major restraint on entire sump flow. For the returns design 1 will not reduce flow, only change is put the gate valve as close to sump as you can. Beyond that keep in mind when you glue stuff everything's going to go together around a half inch more than dry fitting.

 

[Blue Spot Octopus]

One tip once you get the plumbing exactly how you want get a Sharpie and mark the fittings and the pipe so when you glue it together it all lines back up.
Unions are your friend but cheap ones are not. Even the good ones will lick up on you, so putting more unions in the better.

 

[Adamc13o3]

Those ball valves look like they will be super hard to turn. Check out Amazon or BRS they have better ones. Unless your specifically know what you’re using the manifold for I wouldn’t even put the valves in. Just use tees that are threaded on one end or convert them and use threaded plugs. Also I would change the 90 degree elbows on the return lines to 45’s wherever possible. I added a flow monitor to my lines and it’s amazing how much head pressure is caused by fittings.

 

[Hezam]

I would run the UV off the manifold not directly through the main returns. I like the idea but setting proper flow depending on UV goals could be a major restraint on entire sump flow. For the returns design 1 will not reduce flow, only change is put the gate valve as close to sump as you can. Beyond that keep in mind when you glue stuff everything's going to go together around a half inch more than dry fitting.

Thanks for the advice. The UV plumbing is the topic that I could not find a straight answer no matter how many threads I read It seems like people are divided into preferring to plumb it in the sump to adjust flow and people who like I did above with uv to display. What you said makes sense I am thinking about it now and I will definitely be cranking up the pump and I am not sure what numbers flow wise I'll get. And if it's correct or not for the UV unit.. I feel like it's a gamble I may get the correct amount of flow I may not.

Okay so I need to account to make everything a little taller because they gonna get pushed in. Sounds good

 

[Hezam]

Those ball valves look like they will be super hard to turn. Check out Amazon or BRS they have better ones. Unless your specifically know what you’re using the manifold for I wouldn’t even put the valves in. Just use tees that are threaded on one end or convert them and use threaded plugs. Also I would change the 90 degree elbows on the return lines to 45’s wherever possible. I added a flow monitor to my lines and it’s amazing how much head pressure is caused by fittings.

Oh very interesting suggestion, you are saying use T with a thread and just put a cap there? I've read on these forums avoid threaded fitting as much as possible and just use slip on it's much better, what do you think of that? I am a complete novice with plumbing so I have no idea tbh

I got the gate valve from BRS and I like it very much, these ball valves I got from a local hardware store and they are tough... I don't think I am gonna use them.. Yeah I have no idea what I am gonna use manifold for yet. Spent a while researching and planning ahead alot for this reef tank and put this manifold because a lot of people recommend it.

I got a mixing station all set up and I ain't even gotta a tank! I have a quarantine tank cycling though. So I am trying to to do everything right

 

[Hezam]

One tip once you get the plumbing exactly how you want get a Sharpie and mark the fittings and the pipe so when you glue it together it all lines back up.
Unions are your friend but cheap ones are not. Even the good ones will lick up on you, so putting more unions in the better.

Good suggestion, speaking of unions I have a really dumb question. When I glue them together I am supposed to de-assemble them and glue both end of the pipes alone then screw them back right? I was testing glue stuff for the mixing station and I think I glued most unions shut and I connect disconnect them at all. These unions are fairly cheap so I think I am gonna order better ones. Another silly question if I may but can I remove the sharpie later? It's a PTA to remove as I recall

 

[Adamc13o3]

Oh very interesting suggestion, you are saying use T with a thread and just put a cap there? I've read on these forums avoid threaded fitting as much as possible and just use slip on it's much better, what do you think of that? I am a complete novice with plumbing so I have no idea tbh

I got the gate valve from BRS and I like it very much, these ball valves I got from a local hardware store and they are tough... I don't think I am gonna use them.. Yeah I have no idea what I am gonna use manifold for yet. Spent a while researching and planning ahead alot for this reef tank and put this manifold because a lot of people recommend it.

I got a mixing station all set up and I ain't even gotta a tank! I have a quarantine tank cycling though. So I am trying to to do everything right

Threaded is fine. For something like a plug you shouldn’t have any issues at all. Just remember teflon tape of course.

 

[Kfactor]

put ball valves on the #10 to a just flow on each out put

 

[JM302]

Alternate opinion on unions coming at you. Unless you intend to remove sections of the plumbing for routine maintenance, there is no benefit to a union, especially behind the tank assuming it's difficult to access. A union will only introduce an additional o-ring and potential leak point in the future. If you truly had an emergency and had to take plumbing apart, it takes seconds to cut pvc and reassemble / glue with a coupler. This whole schedule 80 union trend has been made popular by the folks selling them. Yes, a union that is easily accessible can and should be used on something you intend to disconnect, otherwise - no reason.

With that said, I'd personally not use unions on the overflow box out of the bulkheads. I'd run them low toward the sump and they'd only be used if you needed to remove the sump for whatever reason.

And perhaps another unpopular opinion - I'm very much against manifolds on the main return pump, especially on 3 pipe overflows. My rational is as follows. I personally like my tank to be as quiet as possible. The 3 pipe system enables that. The trickle that you allow into the secondary pipe to allow for auto tune will be all over the place with a manifold and reactors attached to it. Water will travel the least path of resistance - so in the case of reactors, if its flow is restricted, the water will begin redirecting to the tank triggering that secondary pipe, causing that trickling hollow water sound. So basically if you had carbon and it picked up some sediment and the flow reduced, it affects the balance of entire the system. Big nope from me.

What I'd personally do is run two pumps - one dedicated to the return to the tank and the other (and can be smaller) pump dedicated to the UV and a manifold. It'll be way more consistent that way.

 

[Hezam]

put ball valves on the #10 to a just flow on each out put

Even if I have a DC pump that's adjustable?

 

[CBonito]

Even if I have a DC pump that's adjustable?

Yes, because then each output is also adjustable. You will want the ability to balance flow.

 

[Hezam]

Alternate opinion on unions coming at you. Unless you intend to remove sections of the plumbing for routine maintenance, there is no benefit to a union, especially behind the tank assuming it's difficult to access. A union will only introduce an additional o-ring and potential leak point in the future. If you truly had an emergency and had to take plumbing apart, it takes seconds to cut pvc and reassemble / glue with a coupler. This whole schedule 80 union trend has been made popular by the folks selling them. Yes, a union that is easily accessible can and should be used on something you intend to disconnect, otherwise - no reason.

With that said, I'd personally not use unions on the overflow box out of the bulkheads. I'd run them low toward the sump and they'd only be used if you needed to remove the sump for whatever reason.

And perhaps another unpopular opinion - I'm very much against manifolds on the main return pump, especially on 3 pipe overflows. My rational is as follows. I personally like my tank to be as quiet as possible. The 3 pipe system enables that. The trickle that you allow into the secondary pipe to allow for auto tune will be all over the place with a manifold and reactors attached to it. Water will travel the least path of resistance - so in the case of reactors, if its flow is restricted, the water will begin redirecting to the tank triggering that secondary pipe, causing that trickling hollow water sound. So basically if you had carbon and it picked up some sediment and the flow reduced, it affects the balance of entire the system. Big nope from me.

What I'd personally do is run two pumps - one dedicated to the return to the tank and the other (and can be smaller) pump dedicated to the UV and a manifold. It'll be way more consistent that way.

Thank for the extremely helpful advice. I still did not glue anything just soaking up the advice. I thought yesterday that there is no way I would be able to excess anything behind the tank once everything is set up and pushed behind the wall. Technically I could but I would have to drain the tank and move it up a bit. and I am imagining a union o ring leaking there, that's a disaster!! Thank you for bringing light on this. So your saying, still put unions but waay down in the sump if for any reason I need to disconnect the sump later. Got it!

Man this manifold and UV got me all confused. Makes sense what you say, I actually want the tank to be as quite as possible, but I keep hearing people say that if not %100 of the water passes through the UV then its useless. Some people are adamant on making it look like pump to UV to Display tank. Some people plumb it back to sump. I am down to buy another pump to power my manifold, but that will depend on how I want to route my UV. But what you say makes sense, I have a Sicce SDC 9.0, a whole lotta power for that pump, I do want to be able to tune the main display without affecting UV every time.. I will set on this for a bit, thanks again for the advice

 

[Hezam]

Yes, because then each output is also adjustable. You will want the ability to balance flow.

I will definitely do that makes sense, did not really think about that, if one corner receives all the flow I don't want the other to be dead or low flow. I will add that to the design

 

[JM302]

Thank for the extremely helpful advice. I still did not glue anything just soaking up the advice. I thought yesterday that there is no way I would be able to excess anything behind the tank once everything is set up and pushed behind the wall. Technically I could but I would have to drain the tank and move it up a bit. and I am imagining a union o ring leaking there, that's a disaster!! Thank you for bringing light on this. So your saying, still put unions but waay down in the sump if for any reason I need to disconnect the sump later. Got it!

Man this manifold and UV got me all confused. Makes sense what you say, I actually want the tank to be as quite as possible, but I keep hearing people say that if not %100 of the water passes through the UV then its useless. Some people are adamant on making it look like pump to UV to Display tank. Some people plumb it back to sump. I am down to buy another pump to power my manifold, but that will depend on how I want to route my UV. But what you say makes sense, I have a Sicce SDC 9.0, a whole lotta power for that pump, I do want to be able to tune the main display without affecting UV every time.. I will set on this for a bit, thanks again for the advice

I'll tell you this - I'm jealous of those 1.5" drains! What kind of tank is that? My Innovative Marine 170 has (3) 1" drains and my Vectra L2 can pump more than they flow even at full siphon. That Sicce is such a great pump.

You do have a high wattage UV - I'd have to do the math, but one concern with a high wattage UV is HEAT. It's almost like adding a 90-Watt heater to your tank running 24x7. I don't know what climate you live in, but I'm in NC and outside of two chilly winter months, my heaters never run. I have a 25 Watt Aqua UV and it adds measurable heat to my tank.

I'd also ask what problem you're trying to solve with the UV? For example, there are certain dinos that are susceptible to UV. Well, as an example, on my smaller tank I had a UV on the main return and I ended up with coolia dinos. The UV did NOTHING until I totally reconfigured it. I had to slow the flow significantly, put a pump in the tank toward the sand and return it back to the tank. So basically a closed loop of sorts. It did NOTHING when it was hooked to my main return. As soon as I plumbed it direct, I saw a difference the next day.

Although I quarantine and buy quarantined fish, I still ended up with ich in the tank. I'm truly okay with that too - in my experience it will not kill healthy fish. As long as I don't have brook, velvet or flukes, etc - that's good enough for me. When my tank broke out with ich, it went through a few cycles and it slowly began to diminish. There is still no factual evidence that the UV was the reason for the reduction, it could have been healthy fish and some level of natural immunity, but I can confidently tell you that each cycle of the ich past the first 1 or 2 was reduced. I do credit the UV for playing a role in that - not the be all end all. In this case the UV was plumbed into the sump, not the return.

So that's a lot - but just a a little food for thought. Running a 90 watt 24x7 on the return may have some unintended consequences. I'd strongly consider the use case that you're most trying to solve for and then go from there.

And I agree with using a ball valve on each return!

Happy reefing!

 

[Hezam]

I'll tell you this - I'm jealous of those 1.5" drains! What kind of tank is that? My Innovative Marine 170 has (3) 1" drains and my Vectra L2 can pump more than they flow even at full siphon. That Sicce is such a great pump.

Thanks a lot! This is a custom built tank, the dimension are weird in inches but in metric 200cmx60cmx60cm which is a little under 7ft by 2ft by 2ft. This is my first go at the salt water hobby and a reef tank in general, I spent the better part of the last year and a half in full research mode. Slowly gathering parts and making the final dream tank my first tank. Its been a LONG journey, Its gonna be two years almost in this hobby and I don't even have a tank yet. I'll be honest its scary. Its a first for literally everything, plumbing, owning fish, keeping coral and even mixing salt. But I am taking it slowly and enjoying the hobby. I finished my mixing station and quarantine tank before the main display even!

You do have a high wattage UV - I'd have to do the math, but one concern with a high wattage UV is HEAT. It's almost like adding a 90-Watt heater to your tank running 24x7. I don't know what climate you live in, but I'm in NC and outside of two chilly winter months, my heaters never run. I have a 25 Watt Aqua UV and it adds measurable heat to my tank.

Yes I live in a very hot climate. So I am worried about the heat, I bought heaters but I don't think they will actually turn on once. I will most definitely buy a chiller. But just not right now (before the summer starts in a couple of months), I will make space for it and plumb through a manifold most likely.

I'd also ask what problem you're trying to solve with the UV? For example, there are certain dinos that are susceptible to UV. Well, as an example, on my smaller tank I had a UV on the main return and I ended up with coolia dinos. The UV did NOTHING until I totally reconfigured it. I had to slow the flow significantly, put a pump in the tank toward the sand and return it back to the tank. So basically a closed loop of sorts. It did NOTHING when it was hooked to my main return. As soon as I plumbed it direct, I saw a difference the next day.

To answer your question about UV, I wanna use it to control algae and dinos mostly, I will be quarantining heavily so not too worried Ich or parasites. You say that even with that Ich may still get into the tank? Hmm that worries me honestly but I will take extra precuations in quarantine and I do my due diligence and hope for the best.

Running a 90 watt 24x7 on the return may have some unintended consequences. I'd strongly consider the use case that you're most trying to solve for and then go from there.

Can you expand on that? Is that too strong of unit to run 24/7? You have convinced me to not run it directly 24x7 to the return. I was worried originally that I bought too big of a unit for my tank. I originally wanted to go for a 300 gallon tank so that's my I went for this. I am changing the plan right now to plumb it back into the sump, although I don't have a second return pump, gonna order one most likely and redo the plan for plumbing

 

[JM302]

Thanks a lot! This is a custom built tank, the dimension are weird in inches but in metric 200cmx60cmx60cm which is a little under 7ft by 2ft by 2ft. This is my first go at the salt water hobby and a reef tank in general, I spent the better part of the last year and a half in full research mode. Slowly gathering parts and making the final dream tank my first tank. Its been a LONG journey, Its gonna be two years almost in this hobby and I don't even have a tank yet. I'll be honest its scary. Its a first for literally everything, plumbing, owning fish, keeping coral and even mixing salt. But I am taking it slowly and enjoying the hobby. I finished my mixing station and quarantine tank before the main display even!


Yes I live in a very hot climate. So I am worried about the heat, I bought heaters but I don't think they will actually turn on once. I will most definitely buy a chiller. But just not right now (before the summer starts in a couple of months), I will make space for it and plumb through a manifold most likely.



To answer your question about UV, I wanna use it to control algae and dinos mostly, I will be quarantining heavily so not too worried Ich or parasites. You say that even with that Ich may still get into the tank? Hmm that worries me honestly but I will take extra precuations in quarantine and I do my due diligence and hope for the best.


Can you expand on that? Is that too strong of unit to run 24/7? You have convinced me to not run it directly 24x7 to the return. I was worried originally that I bought too big of a unit for my tank. I originally wanted to go for a 300 gallon tank so that's my I went for this. I am changing the plan right now to plumb it back into the sump, although I don't have a second return pump, gonna order one most likely and redo the plan for plumbing

UV is a bit of a mystery because every manufacturer lists their flow rates and associated exposure and they all seem to be different. This is from Lifeguard.. So if we use this chart, you'd need 2165 - 3610 GPH to achieve 30,000 µw/cm2

There is also footnotes on UV that says the following:

Reef Tanks - A UV rated in the 30,000-45,000 columns is ideal for the reef environment .UV’s rated at higher kill rates will destroy the planktonic food supply for the reef.

Marine Fish Tanks (No reef or live rock) - A UV rated in the 75,000 to 90,000 columns will be the most effective at controlling fish disease.

So with that...... Here's what I see as the next problem. The Sicce is a GREAT Pump. It's rated at a max of 2500GPH. However, by time you get through that 1" return pipe, the elbows, the tee, the head pressure, etc - you will be no where near that flow rate. If you get 1000GPH back to the tank, I'd be surprised - and 1000gph is plenty of flow through the sump. You could do what I did and upsize the return to 1.25" to help reduce the head pressure in the return which will in turn increase the flow rate. In my experience unless you have a pump capable of dealing with head pressure, aka a pressure pump, the flow is severely diminished.

So with that said - the slower the water flow, the more it'll be heated and you'll likely be putting way more UV into the tank than you want. IMO the 90-watt is way oversized.

And I'll double down on the dino control. Unless you plumb it closed loop style removing the sump from the equation, UV will likely not help you with an active outbreak. Could it possibly prevent an outbreak from starting? Maybe. I really don't know. I know plenty of people that run UV full time and still had a major dino outbreak. Me being one of them. If you want dino control, find some real live rock and sand and start that way.

So as far as me saying 'unintended consequences' I am referring to the heat and the potential of putting way too much UV into the water column, ultimately killing the good stuff all while not really achieving your goals of the UV.

Lastly, I don't want to really start the great ich debate - there are tons of smart (smarter than me) people on this forum that are firm in their belief that unless you actively treat an infected fish, and go fallow, your fish are doomed... I don't subscribe to that nor has that ever been my experience. I don't think I've ever lost a fish to ich in 20 + years. I have it in my current display despite my best efforts. Probably have had it in every DT up until now. I manage it and I do believe that UV helps with that management combined with Selcon and an overall healthy diet. For example, it took me upgrading tanks and moving all the fish and blitzing the tank with new tank-mates to see the ich come back. Within a few months it was pushed back and not even showing up on the fish. I run about 45,0000 µW/cm2 which per the guideline, is the high end for reef tanks.

Sorry for the long answer to your question. I have been doing this a long time and really focus on plumbing and flow efficiency. It's my thing.

 

[Hezam]

UV is a bit of a mystery because every manufacturer lists their flow rates and associated exposure and they all seem to be different. This is from Lifeguard.. So if we use this chart, you'd need 2165 - 3610 GPH to achieve 30,000 µw/cm2

There is also footnotes on UV that says the following:

Reef Tanks - A UV rated in the 30,000-45,000 columns is ideal for the reef environment .UV’s rated at higher kill rates will destroy the planktonic food supply for the reef.

Marine Fish Tanks (No reef or live rock) - A UV rated in the 75,000 to 90,000 columns will be the most effective at controlling fish disease.

So with that...... Here's what I see as the next problem. The Sicce is a GREAT Pump. It's rated at a max of 2500GPH. However, by time you get through that 1" return pipe, the elbows, the tee, the head pressure, etc - you will be no where near that flow rate. If you get 1000GPH back to the tank, I'd be surprised - and 1000gph is plenty of flow through the sump. You could do what I did and upsize the return to 1.25" to help reduce the head pressure in the return which will in turn increase the flow rate. In my experience unless you have a pump capable of dealing with head pressure, aka a pressure pump, the flow is severely diminished.

So with that said - the slower the water flow, the more it'll be heated and you'll likely be putting way more UV into the tank than you want. IMO the 90-watt is way oversized.

And I'll double down on the dino control. Unless you plumb it closed loop style removing the sump from the equation, UV will likely not help you with an active outbreak. Could it possibly prevent an outbreak from starting? Maybe. I really don't know. I know plenty of people that run UV full time and still had a major dino outbreak. Me being one of them. If you want dino control, find some real live rock and sand and start that way.

So as far as me saying 'unintended consequences' I am referring to the heat and the potential of putting way too much UV into the water column, ultimately killing the good stuff all while not really achieving your goals of the UV.

Lastly, I don't want to really start the great ich debate - there are tons of smart (smarter than me) people on this forum that are firm in their belief that unless you actively treat an infected fish, and go fallow, your fish are doomed... I don't subscribe to that nor has that ever been my experience. I don't think I've ever lost a fish to ich in 20 + years. I have it in my current display despite my best efforts. Probably have had it in every DT up until now. I manage it and I do believe that UV helps with that management combined with Selcon and an overall healthy diet. For example, it took me upgrading tanks and moving all the fish and blitzing the tank with new tank-mates to see the ich come back. Within a few months it was pushed back and not even showing up on the fish. I run about 45,0000 µW/cm2 which per the guideline, is the high end for reef tanks.

Sorry for the long answer to your question. I have been doing this a long time and really focus on plumbing and flow efficiency. It's my thing.

Thanks again for the extremely detailed reply. I get it now. I am predicting some heat problems with my tank unfortunately. I had a gut feeling the 90w was overkill and unfortunately didn't manage to score the plus 300 gallon tank. I have about 200 gallon display and 75 gallon sump.

Like you said I definitely won't be able to reach no where near 2000+Gph. Maybe even barley 1000gph like you said. I'll be running the UV at around 75,000 to 90,000 columns all the time according to the chart maybe a little bit less if I manage to increase the flow. What would be the best course of action here? Use this and find out? Unfortunately returning it is not an option. I could opt to not use it at all for now if it's gonna cause more damage than harm. Unless I can pump through it massive flow. If I buy a dedicated return pump and just blast it. Or make it run not 24/7? Maybe on a timer. I've read that cycling the bulb isn't good at all for its life.

dang feeling a bit sad should've spent more time researching this, UV was so complicated for me at the start and read a lot on how go big isn't a problem

 

[JM302]

Thanks again for the extremely detailed reply. I get it now. I am predicting some heat problems with my tank unfortunately. I had a gut feeling the 90w was overkill and unfortunately didn't manage to score the plus 300 gallon tank. I have about 200 gallon display and 75 gallon sump.

Like you said I definitely won't be able to reach no where near 2000+Gph. Maybe even barley 1000gph like you said. I'll be running the UV at around 75,000 to 90,000 columns all the time according to the chart maybe a little bit less if I manage to increase the flow. What would be the best course of action here? Use this and find out? Unfortunately returning it is not an option. I could opt to not use it at all for now if it's gonna cause more damage than harm. Unless I can pump through it massive flow. If I buy a dedicated return pump and just blast it. Or make it run not 24/7? Maybe on a timer. I've read that cycling the bulb isn't good at all for its life.

dang feeling a bit sad should've spent more time researching this, UV was so complicated for me at the start and read a lot on how go big isn't a problem

Upsize your return plumbing if it's feasible to do so. Eliminate as many 90's as possible. Run 1.25" all the way and reduce it at the last minute (aka, right before the return bulkhead). That will provide a significant increase in flow from the pump and reduce the contact time.

I'd run the UV on the main pump - full time. Turning it on and off is no bueno, so leave it on. Get yourself a bucket and calculate your GPH to see where you're at once it's all plumbed up. If it's lower than what you're comfortable with, you may need to upsize the return pump. I know the doc says 45,000 max for reef, I have run 60,000 without any obvious issues. When I had dinos and was running >100,000 - I had zero pods in the tank - it was... well... sterile.

Take a look at my build thread - I think page 2 or so. I detail the plumbing design and explain what I'm trying to achieve with it. I ran all 1.25" pipe as far as I could. If you go any larger than 1.25", you then have other challenges because the weight of the water in the pipe starts to work against you.