Dragon's Breath Vs Pom Pom Macroalgae for nutrient export and pH control

GARRIGA · Nov 3, 2023

Moving my test tank to the next level and want something decorative as I plan on having a show Fuge for my main. Main goal is raising pH naturally through photosynthesis with secondary focus on nutrient export and finally a treat for my tangs and other residents.

Assuming same size Fuge, which of these two will be most effective and I'm assuming Pom Pom based on research but heavily leaning towards Dragon's Breath because of luminescence under blue lights. Size of Fuge is flexible therefore understanding how much more Dragon I need Vs Pom Pom to get the same affect another way of looking at this but that has to be within reason. Not like I can double the size of the Fuge but do have some flexibility.

Not interested in other options although curious how Pom Pom operates Vs Chaeto. For example, as above, do I need twice the Pom Pom to remove the same level of nutrients were I using chaeto?

Upcoming build will be without water changes, no skimmer, might have a calcium reactor feeding into the Fuge to remove co2, modified Moonshiner/Trident method, monthly ICP to manage trace, most likely AFR to reduce excess sodium since water isn't being changed except for emergencies and expecting alkalinity consumption to be reduced since nitrates aren't being thrown out with the bath water and allow to be removed via carbon dosing supplemented Fuge. Want to keep it simple and natural. Tank inhabitants will be chosen based on what this accomplishes. If it's mushrooms than so be it. Life too busy for me to sweat over tank maintenance but I would like Acros, if possible.

Heavy feeding to keep all happy and healthy and that macroalgae constantly eating. My understanding of photosynthesis being that consumption of co2 related to use of nutrients and light provided. Since main goal is consumption of co2 then light and food my other variables along with proper replenishment of trace.

Backstory on co2 being that I live in south Florida in an air tight construction with people and pets and unable to maintain pH above 7.6 without use of algae which I'm testing at the moment and confirming. Although I'm using GHA since it's free and all too often readily available yet *****. Air exchanger might be an option since changing my AC might become a requirement but still want a Fuge for pods and excess nutrients along with additional co2 scrubbing.

therootcause · Nov 3, 2023

I think that you will have to decide between form and function. Most feedback will be anecdotal, not scientific, and I think that many would agree that chaetomorpha is the best choice for nutrient export and pH control. Between the two most common red macroalgae's, I doubt anyone has any credible evidence one way or the other.

GARRIGA · Nov 4, 2023

therootcause said:
I think that you will have to decide between form and function. Most feedback will be anecdotal, not scientific, and I think that many would agree that chaetomorpha is the best choice for nutrient export and pH control. Between the two most common red macroalgae's, I doubt anyone has any credible evidence one way or the other.

Have seen mentioned that some have kept both Pom Pom and Dragon's Breath and perhaps my wording should have been which one took over? Would seem that's the most able to take advantage of the conditions provided. Although there are some science minded and perhaps someone has performed test as I did with freshwater. In the end, might just buy both and see who out competes the other along with some Blue Hypnea for contrasting color.

Chaeto not being considered.

Cichlid Dad · Nov 4, 2023

If it's a display refugium, run a bunch of different macro algae. I have 5 different algae in my 40 breeder refugium. I love it, basically a second tank sitting next to my display.

GARRIGA · Nov 4, 2023

Cichlid Dad said:
If it's a display refugium, run a bunch of different macro algae. I have 5 different algae in my 40 breeder refugium. I love it, basically a second tank sitting next to my display.

Is there one that out competes the rest and do you have Pom Pom and Dragon's Breath? Those and Blue Hypnea the only items I'm interested in. Although I'd rather have Dragon's Breath and why I'm hoping to get a comparison as I have flexibility in size of refugium although it comes at the expense of other filtration I was hoping to utilize.

Cichlid Dad · Nov 4, 2023

A Look at the Macroalgae Caulerpa

By James W. Fatherree Of all the various kinds of macroalgae that can be added to a marine aquarium, the most common are the species belonging to the genus C

reefs.com

The first one showing on this article. My dragon breath does not grow nearly as fast.

PeterErc · Nov 7, 2023

It’s been a while now , I had blue ochtodes and dragons breathe growing in a sump together. They both did really well but not sure how they compared to chaeto. The ochtodes would break off and make it into display for fish food. I had a heavy bio load with vinegar kalkwasser top off. They both would get sold to an online vendor.
I do not know how ph was affected but SPS grew well.
ORA dragons breathe is a nice looking but not as nice as the one with the orange tips. It grows in a thicker mass especially under 24hr light cycle. I wasn’t sure, but it survives. I would do dragons breathe over Pom Pom as I had better success with it and it’s not as messy.
South Florida as well, I ran fresh air intake to skimmer and overflows , top off with kalkwasser, ph is usually 8.1-8.3.
Rambling mess but hopefully useful

GARRIGA · Nov 8, 2023

PeterErc said:
ORA dragons breathe is a nice looking but not as nice as the one with the orange tips. It grows in a thicker mass especially under 24hr light cycle. I wasn’t sure, but it survives. I would do dragons breathe over Pom Pom as I had better success with it and it’s not as messy.
South Florida as well, I ran fresh air intake to skimmer and overflows , top off with kalkwasser, ph is usually 8.1-8.3.
Rambling mess but hopefully useful

Part of wanting Dragon's Breath beyond the luminescence tips being I wanted something with good structure that would not break apart under heavy flow and could survive 24/7 lighting although latter pretty comfortable most would. Would like to peg lights on/off to ph where it turned off only if exceeded 8.5.

Looking at getting from Top Shelf since I could grab it when visiting Orlando. Prefer hand picking vs what an other thought was acceptable. Wasn't aware ORA has a different variety. Good to know.

Do to tank placement there's no feasible option for running an outside line plus I have no control to what pesticides the HOA sprays to maintain the community and they've been known to change landscapers plus often see them spraying and putting out signs of keeping pets off the grass.

Were you often pruning back new growth on the Dragon's Breath?

PeterErc · Nov 8, 2023

When I had the heavy bio load I would pull out 2/3 of both macro’s and let it grow back out.
The ORA is seemingly a slow grower, however it is more dense. So again, I don’t know how it compares with other macro’s for nutrient export.
When I first got the ORA from LFS we didn’t know anything about it. Thought it weird that it didn’t get bright tips. I pulled some out of sump and put in a nano I had set up with Hayi in it. Hit it with a heavy dose of potassium nitrate and iron. Figured there was plenty of phosphate as tank was not clean. You can see it started to color up and get the gold in it and no gold tips. The light was a high CRI bridgelux Vero 10 led that rendered natural color pretty closely. This is when it just started coloring up and has become darker over time.. I have since changed tanks/lights and am picking up a 10g today to grow the ORA in. I searched a while back and found a web page with the scientific names of the different dragons breath but can’t remember the names.
Here’s the pic with the hayi below the ORA, I will get a new pic of how it looks today and show the growth difference between the 24 hr photo period and the 12hr.

GARRIGA · Nov 8, 2023

This is what I know to be Dragon's Breath and what I'll be sourcing from TSA unless I can find at an LFS in the area. Doesn't appear to be what you have. Could yours be Dragon's Tongue instead? It's very decorative and why I seek it with the understanding it's not the best option for nutrient export and willing to sacrifice filtration elsewhere to accommodate ample amount of it to solve both decomposition uptake and gas exchange with latter to strip co2 out of solution and raise pH. Can solve decomposition by other means and photosynthesis the priority yet my understanding being that requires processing of waste with more of that resulting in more photosynthesis. It's like one huge into the rabbit hole until a better solution found which might just be an air exchanger.

Photo from TSA for example of actual being sought. Hopefully I don't upset the pic police. Going to have enough of that when I start adding tangs

PeterErc · Nov 8, 2023

Well I did some google searching and it’s a mess. Halymenia sp is the red algae we are looking at.

Halymenia Durvillie is the name of the one you posted from TSA. Which I had known dragons breath to be.

Halymenia Dilitata is the ORA dragons breath.

Yes, then there is dragons tongue macro. A google image search results are ridiculous. Various Halymenia are called tongue, even the TSA and ORA. The name game all over again with macro’s.

There is some good info from search results. I would suggest spending some time. May just find the answers to your questions.

There’s a bunch of nice looking Halymenia species, as suggested above, why not try a few different ones and see which does best

ORA Dragons Breath Algae - Oceans Garden Aquaculture

(HALYMENIA SP.)

www.oceansgarden.com

PeterErc · Nov 8, 2023

Double post

GARRIGA · Nov 8, 2023

Trying several might be needed but these things are expensive to source. You'd think that most throw away would be cheaper but in this hobby nothing makes financial sense. Frags get shorter and yet fancy names raise prices.