Dosing vs Algae Confusion

[Maho.B]

Hello all. Can anyone clarify whether to know if I should continue nitrate dosing or not given the following:

If I don't dose nitrates, they fall to zero (at least on a Hanna checker) rather quickly. I am currently dosing Brightwwell NeoNitro at a rate of 7 ml in a 110 gallon system which says it will raise it approx .5 ppm. Obviously things are consuming the Nitrate because dosing this much over a period of weeks will only get it to creep up to the 1.5-2.5 ppm range. I notice (unless it's my imagination) that if the Nitrate gets below about .5 ppm my red monti caps tend to begin to "pale" a bit, so I continue to dose. The issue is that it seems like the algae also likes it. I cannot seem to shake this brownish algae, mostly on the sand bed but also on some of the rock. I don't have a microscope so I can't determine but based on reading a ton of posts it's either dinos or maybe cyano (but shouldn't that be red?) and I want neither. It is like a mat on the sand, when I remove it some sand sticks to it, some areas get a tiny bit "stringy" and some has bubbles in it, HOWEVER I don't know if its the algae producing it or it's collecting bubbles from my Octo skimmer that let's out tons of little bubbles constantly, which in itself is frustrating. So, here are params as of right now:

Alk: 10.0
Calcium: 430
Mag: 1350
Nitrate: 0.5
Phosphate: 0.02
Salinity: 1.026
Temp: 77.8
Ph: Unknown (no test kit)

Three days ago testing showed the Nitrate at 1.2 and all other parameters the same, because of the algae I skipped dosing the NeoNitro for two days and as you can see it dropped from 1.2 to 0.5

Based on this would you continue to dose the NeoNitro or stop until the algae in question is figured out? I'm going to see if my LFS has a microscope when they open today, maybe that will help. Any other info needed let me know, thanks!

 

[Formulator]

I would suggest increasing your nitrate dose, even doubling it. You need to get your nitrate higher if it is dinos. Shoot for 10 ppm.

 

[Maho.B]

Thanks, do you know if it's alright to increase it more than than .5 in one day?

 

[thedon986]

Thanks, do you know if it's alright to increase it more than than .5 in one day?

Yeah I dose about 5ppm worth of nitrates at once when I see it falling below 10

 

[Maho.B]

Yeah I dose about 5ppm worth of nitrates at once when I see it falling below 10

WOW, okay thanks! I was concerned that I am simply feeding the bad algae with the nitrate dosing.

 

[Formulator]

I used to be afraid to dose more than 0.5 per day based on the bottle instructions, but after talking to folks on here, I raised it to 1.5-2 ppm per day and was finally able to get my tank up to a 10 ppm baseline. This was after months of struggling to keep it above 2 ppm, similar to you.

 

[thedon986]

And I am also battling hair algae with some light ostreopsis. It’s a tough line to walk keeping nitrates and phosphates up without giving the algae too much food. Using a small diameter tubing into the sump with a filter sock helps get a lot of the algae out. I do that 3 times a week or so and I am slowly winning.

 

[Formulator]

And I am also battling hair algae with some light ostreopsis. It’s a tough line to walk keeping nitrates and phosphates up without giving the algae too much food. Using a small diameter tubing into the sump with a filter sock helps get a lot of the algae out. I do that 3 times a week or so and I am slowly winning.

Similar experience here. I broke down and bought a reef mat… still haven’t told my wife what that thing cost me . Totally worth it though.

 

[Maho.B]

thedon986 great to hear you are slowly winning, what are you keeping your nitrate/phosphate at?

 

[thedon986]

Similar experience here. I broke down and bought a reef mat… still haven’t told my wife what that thing cost me . Totally worth it though.

Man I have been contemplating that or a turf algae scrubber. My refugium caulerpa grows really well but it’s just not displacing the hair.

 

[Formulator]

Man I have been contemplating that or a turf algae scrubber. My refugium caulerpa grows really well but it’s just not displacing the hair.

The one thing that put me over the edge and got me on the winning side of my battle was the addition of a pincushion urchin. That thing goes to town on the stuff.

 

[Maho.B]

Similar experience here. I broke down and bought a reef mat… still haven’t told my wife what that thing cost me . Totally worth it though.

I have a reef mat as well, love it. Thanks for the info on being able to increase more than the .5 per day, I will do it and see if it helps!

 

[thedon986]

Here are my trends for much of the hair algae battle. The phosphates bottoming out is what brought the ostreopsis but still trying to keep it under .1 without going to zero.

 

[Formulator]

Here are my trends for much of the hair algae battle. The phosphates bottoming out is what brought the ostreopsis but still trying to keep it under .1 without going to zero.

looks like you are getting to be right on the money now at least!

 

[Formulator]

Also, why keep the phosphate so low? In my experience 0.1-0.4 is fine unless you are going for competition level growth and color out of acros. As you learned, too low can cause problems. (Sorry for the side convo OP!)

 

[thedon986]

Also, why keep the phosphate so low? In my experience 0.1-0.4 is fine unless you are going for competition level growth and color out of acros. As you learned, too low can cause problems. (Sorry for the side convo OP!)

Just trying to make sure I put the nail in the coffin of the hair algae. .1 is more my goal but I’ve been a bit busy lately so anything detectable has had to do when I remember to toss in a capful of neophos a few times a week.

 

[Maho.B]

All good! These experiences are good info for me!

 

[Maho.B]

Formulator, I should have asked what product are they using for your nitrate dosing? I've read about potassium, calcium and sodium nitrates...like I said I've only used NeoNitro and don't really know which one that is.

 

[Formulator]

Formulator, I should have asked what product are they using for your nitrate dosing? I've read about potassium, calcium and sodium nitrates...like I said I've only used NeoNitro and don't really know which one that is.

I use NeoNitro as well. To me its really about the convenience of an off the shelf product and its one of the few options out there. I believe it is mostly sodium nitrate so it doesn’t mess with your calcium. Maybe some potassium nitrate in there too, but they don’t publish the formula.

Some people prefer to dose ammonia salts like ammonium chloride and let the nitrogen cycle convert to nitrate, as there may be some additional benefits as a coral nutrient in its brief time as free ammonia. But this method is more DIY, and potentially more dangerous if done incorrectly.

 

[Maho.B]

Good to know! I am like you too...off the shelf convenience is preferred right now as long as it's a good quality product and works. Thanks

I use NeoNitro as well. To me its really about the convenience of an off the shelf product and its one of the few options out there. I believe it is mostly sodium nitrate so it doesn’t mess with your calcium. Maybe some potassium nitrate in there too, but they don’t publish the formula.

Some people prefer to dose ammonia salts like ammonium chloride and let the nitrogen cycle convert to nitrate, as there may be some additional benefits as a coral nutrient in its brief time as free ammonia. But this method is more DIY, and potentially more dangerous if done incorrectly