DIY Amino Acid Dosing

[jrp1588]

I would like to put together a DIY amino acid recipe with bulk powders to create something like Brightwell Coral Amino. Than from Tidal Gardens mentioned a DIY amino they use on their farm in a BRS video, but I haven't been able to find any info on it.

The chart in this link seems like a good starting point for what aminos to source, and bulksupplements.com seems to have all the major ones, but I basically have no idea of how much of X, Y, and Z powder to add to a given volume of water to make the solution, or how much to dose from there. I'm assuming some kind of preservative is needed. I think I've seen vinegar mentioned in the very scant information I've found on doing this. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is a complicated question with unclear answers, IMO.


1. Are the amino acids being dosed because you want to keep low nitrate and it is a source of N (type may not matter at all) or is it because you want corals to use the amino acids without metabolizing them first (type is critical, but IMO, not well known))?

2. There is some published evidence that aspartic acid may be needed and/or useful for some corals to get from external sources.

3. The essential amino acids in the link are, of course, essential for humans. Other organisms have a very different, and sometimes far smaller list.

IMO, there's not a useful list of which amino acids will benefit a coral when supplied in the water.

 

[jrp1588]

This is a complicated question with unclear answers, IMO.


1. Are the amino acids being dosed because you want to keep low nitrate and it is a source of N (type may not matter at all) or is it because you want corals to use the amino acids without metabolizing them first (type is critical, but IMO, not well known))?

2. There is some published evidence that aspartic acid may be needed and/or useful for some corals to get from external sources.

3. The essential amino acids in the link are, of course, essential for humans. Other organisms have a very different, and sometimes far smaller list.

IMO, there's not a useful list of which amino acids will benefit a coral when supplied in the water.

Well mostly I have just been dosing Brightwell Coral Amino, and have anecdotally seen better colors and PE while using it. BRS testing seemed to back that up. However, I don't like paying $35 for such a small bottle, and if it works well on my home tank, I may pitch its use at the coral farm where I work where we're currently spending a TON on ready made amino acid supps.

As for the chart, I think you may have looked at the list on the top. There's another near the bottom that tested amino acid makeup within the tissue that makes up the flesh/skeleton matrix ordered by prevalence, with aspartic acid head and shoulders above the rest as mentioned.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, I only looked at table 1. I would not assume corals need or take up all those that in their tissues (since they are able to make many of their own), but it's a fine place to start.

Biosynthesis of 'essential' amino acids by scleractinian corals.

Animals rely on their diet for amino acids that they are incapable either of synthesizing or of synthesizing in sufficient quantities to meet metabolic needs. These are the so-called 'essential amino acids'. This set of amino acids is similar among the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Eight amino acids normally considered essential for animals were made by the five corals tested, although some of them were made only in small quantities. These eight amino acids are valine, isoleucine, leucine, tyrosine, phenylalanine histidine, methionine and lysine.

 

[jrp1588]

Yes, I only looked at table 1. I would not assume corals need or take up all those that in their tissues (since they are able to make many of their own), but it's a fine place to start.

Biosynthesis of 'essential' amino acids by scleractinian corals.

Animals rely on their diet for amino acids that they are incapable either of synthesizing or of synthesizing in sufficient quantities to meet metabolic needs. These are the so-called 'essential amino acids'. This set of amino acids is similar among the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Eight amino acids normally considered essential for animals were made by the five corals tested, although some of them were made only in small quantities. These eight amino acids are valine, isoleucine, leucine, tyrosine, phenylalanine histidine, methionine and lysine.

Thanks, I'll give it a read after work. So, if you were to make a solution of say 1lr, what would you recommend for ammounts to add ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, I'll give it a read after work. So, if you were to make a solution of say 1lr, what would you recommend for ammounts to add ?

Is your nitrate low?

 

[Spare time]

I would just mix it in water before use as I was thinking of doing this before but there isn't a way to prevent bacterial growth in it other than possibly adding an antimicrobial agent in like some reefing products have (and that I wouldn't want to risk doing).. I have no clue the dosage though.

 

[jrp1588]

Is your nitrate low?

Mine aren't especially low, around 10-15. Some of the frag systems at work are in the ULN range.

 

[jrp1588]

I would just mix it in water before use as I was thinking of doing this before but there isn't a way to prevent bacterial growth in it other than possibly adding an antimicrobial agent in like some reefing products have (and that I wouldn't want to risk doing).. I have no clue the dosage though.

Maybe I could dose it dry? I'm surprised there's not more info on this. Reefing is kind of notorious DIY solutions to avoid paying the 1000% markup the manufacturers put on additives.

 

[Kzang]

If you can ge the aminos separate, why not make a small batch of each, and say target feed an acro. If it has a good feeding response, then keep that one in your eventual end product.

 

[Spare time]

Maybe I could dose it dry? I'm surprised there's not more info on this. Reefing is kind of notorious DIY solutions to avoid paying the 1000% markup the manufacturers put on additives.

Maybe. No clue haha

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Mine aren't especially low, around 10-15. Some of the frag systems at work are in the ULN range.

OK, so the hope is just that it will help corals by providing a specific set of amino acids, not as a source of N.

nevertheless, it will boost nitrate, so I'd pick a selection of amino acids that includes aspartic acid, and start slowly.

 

[jrp1588]

OK, so the hope is just that it will help corals by providing a specific set of amino acids, not as a source of N.

nevertheless, it will boost nitrate, so I'd pick a selection of amino acids that includes aspartic acid, and start slowly.

Haha, I guess I'm not going to get numbers out of you, fair enough. I've made a few home brew equivalents like a NeoPhos and NeoNitro equivalent, but I had testing and calculators to back me up on that. I've never had to make up a solution from whole cloth. I'll do some research this weekend and see what I can find.

 

[ebeltran]

I'd love to follow along with your findings, if you wouldn't mind keeping this thread updated

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Haha, I guess I'm not going to get numbers out of you, fair enough. I've made a few home brew equivalents like a NeoPhos and NeoNitro equivalent, but I had testing and calculators to back me up on that. I've never had to make up a solution from whole cloth. I'll do some research this weekend and see what I can find.

It would be guesswork, IMO, to specify specific amino acids, but dosing an amount equivalent in N to 2 ppm nitrate per day seems a reasonable total.

That means about 2-4 mg total amino acid per liter per day.

 

[jrp1588]

It would be guesswork, IMO, to specify specific amino acids, but dosing an amount equivalent in N to 2 ppm nitrate per day seems a reasonable total.

That means about 2-4 mg total amino acid per liter per day.

That's fair, I can start with a ballpark. Per liter of tank water?

 

[Tripod1404]

Yes, I only looked at table 1. I would not assume corals need or take up all those that in their tissues (since they are able to make many of their own), but it's a fine place to start.

Biosynthesis of 'essential' amino acids by scleractinian corals.

Animals rely on their diet for amino acids that they are incapable either of synthesizing or of synthesizing in sufficient quantities to meet metabolic needs. These are the so-called 'essential amino acids'. This set of amino acids is similar among the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Eight amino acids normally considered essential for animals were made by the five corals tested, although some of them were made only in small quantities. These eight amino acids are valine, isoleucine, leucine, tyrosine, phenylalanine histidine, methionine and lysine.

Years ago I doing these 8 amino acids based on on this very article. It ended up lowering nitrate. In my opinion, they these large amino acids have too much carbon in them to effectively increase nitrate. Tyrosine for instance has 9 carbons for every nitrogen. So, I assume they are taken up by bacteria and catabolized as a carbon source, effectively acting as an expensive form of carbon dosing.

All but histidine and lysine are also hydrophobic, and will make the skimmer go nuts.

 

[jrp1588]

Years ago I doing these 8 amino acids based on on this very article. It ended up lowering nitrate. In my opinion, they these large amino acids have too much carbon in them to effectively increase nitrate. Tyrosine for instance has 9 carbons for every nitrogen. So, I assume they are taken up by bacteria and catabolized as a carbon source, effectively acting as an expensive form of carbon dosing.

All but histidine and lysine are also hydrophobic, and will make the skimmer go nuts.

Interesting about the skimmer. I wonder how the commercially prepared amino supps get around this. Do you still have your recipe by chance?

 

[Tripod1404]

Interesting about the skimmer. I wonder how the commercially prepared amino supps get around this. Do you still have your recipe by chance?

I prepared a liter of solution with 100 millimolar of each amino acid and doses 10 ml of it every other day or so. Note that most of these amino acids (i.e. aromatic amino acids) have very low solubility in natural pH water, so I had to drop the pH to ~1 using HCl and heated the bottle to 70 Celsius. Even then I had some undissolved stuff. I am not sure if those were undissolved amino acids or impurities. If they were amino acids, some amino acids were below 100mM.

In hindsight, it may have been better to prepare the stock solution at with an amino acid ratio proportional to what is found in proteins. I may have unintentionally dosed carbon since some amino acids, like aromatics, were definitely in access due to their comparably low usage in proteins. Those were most likely broken down to make smaller more abundant proteins, and that pulled nitrate from water and reduced nitrate levels.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

@Randy Holmes-Farley do amino acids and vitamins in water at room temp decompose over time? I just found a 5gal container of Aquavitro Fuel that I forgot about in my storage unit. It’s been there for probably 3 or 4 years, and I was hoping I wouldn’t have to throw it away.

It looks and smells normal.